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Why use f11 or f16?
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May 1, 2020 03:48:55   #
RWR Loc: La Mesa, CA
 
kenArchi wrote:
Isn't f4 or f5.6 is where the lens is at it's sharpest?

My 560 f/6.8 Leitz Telyt is terrible at f/5.6.

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May 1, 2020 04:00:45   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
"f/8 and be there" assumes you couldn't afford better equipment.


My guess is that f/8 is a ballpark value based on DOF requirements in a very general sense.

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May 1, 2020 05:16:23   #
cameraf4 Loc: Delaware
 
If your love is Portraiture, then stay away from f/16, f/22, f/32, et al. If landscapes are your "thing", huge DOF is worth a small amount of often unnoticeable "diffraction blur."

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May 1, 2020 05:26:40   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
kenArchi wrote:
Isn't f4 or f5.6 is where the lens is at it's sharpest?


As others have mentioned, it is very dependent several factors. Some are lens design, lense construction ( specifically the aperture iris), and format. Diffraction is the biggest culprit at larger apertures for loss of sharpness. Some lens designs will provide the sharpest image in the f4/f5.6 range. But most designs provide the sharpest images at f8/f11 for 4/3rds format and f11/f16 for full frame. Diffraction is one of the downsides of smaller formats relative to larger formats.

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May 1, 2020 06:44:27   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
Many lenses are indeed at their sharpest at f4 or f5.6 depending on the maximum aperture of the lens. Would you shoot a landscape at f5.6 because that will be the sweet spot of the lens in use? I do not think so. So, why f11 or f16?
It has been already mentioned, because of the depth of field. Lenses can only focus on one spot or only a part of the subject. It is the depth of field or the apparent sharpness between foreground and background the main reason for using small lens apertures for landscapes.

Diffraction or the bending of the light rays as they pass through the diaphragm of the lens causes blur to images but I will tell you that refraction has never stopped me from shooting at f16 or f22. If the blur is there and it should be, sharpening of the file makes it practically unnoticeable.

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May 1, 2020 06:59:42   #
obsidian
 
Im not into physics of the lens aperture and diffraction but in your 3 charts, I assume that the blue shadow belongs to the diffracted areas and the pink, the sharper field.

On the topmost short, I can see a big difference but on the bottom chart, there appears to be a constant and narrower diffraction as you increase your F stop from 9 to 22+.

I would like to know which lenses you have used in these 3 charts.
Does the quality of the image change if you use Kit lens VS Prime?
Does the maker (brand) make a difference in the outcome of the picture taken using similar settings?.

I like to take landscape, cityscape and seascape so I am curious if sharpness is really that important in the
background. Color fringing is what I don't want to encounter.

Some photographers are F11 stoppers and others are F16 stoppers and there are even Clubs who adhere to these settings like the Blue and the Red.

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May 1, 2020 07:00:19   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
There are many situations where using hyperfocal distance doesn't give useful values until you get above about f/11.

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May 1, 2020 07:09:12   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
kenArchi wrote:
Isn't f4 or f5.6 is where the lens is at it's sharpest?


Generally speaking, a lens is at it's best two or three stops down. I also avoid F16 to F22 when ever possiable.

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May 1, 2020 08:29:53   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
"f/8 and be there" assumes you couldn't afford better equipment.


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May 1, 2020 08:31:15   #
Bultaco Loc: Aiken, SC
 
Blenheim Orange wrote:
In practical use, it doesn't matter much which aperture is the "sweet spot." The photographer makes creative decisions about depth of field and diffraction. If that means using an aperture other than the "sweet spot" so be it.

Mike



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May 1, 2020 08:32:22   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
billnikon wrote:
Generally speaking, a lens is at it's best two or three stops down. I also avoid F16 to F22 when ever possiable.

I avoid splitting hairs over numbers whenever possible.
I just use the lens.

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May 1, 2020 08:50:52   #
pendennis
 
There's a movie titled "f/11 and Be There", about Burk Uzzle, the youngest photographer ever hired by Life Magazine.

However, the term was originally "f/8 and be there", and it long precedes the movie. The old press cameras frequently had 135-150mm lenses which had a max aperture at around f/4-f/5.6. Two-to-three stops down was f/8, the sweet spot of these lenses. It was an optimal combination for 4x5 sheet film, and the large "press flash bulbs". It was popularized with Weegee, the famed news photographer from the 30's to the 50's. He was famous for his gruesome crime scene photos, as well as being a paparazzo.

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May 1, 2020 08:52:49   #
1Feathercrest Loc: NEPA
 
Small stops are a primary reason/use to increase depth of field.

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May 1, 2020 08:53:18   #
mborn Loc: Massachusetts
 
Gene51 wrote:
Depends on the lens. Most lenses hit their stride stopping down 2-3 stops from wide open. On a 50mm F1.4 lens it is already sharp at F4 in the center, it gets a little better at the corners and edges as you stop down a little more. A 600mmF4 is usually sharpest wide open. Some actually get worse at F5.6. My Sigma 150-600 Sport is best at F7.1 - F8. And so on . . .

It doesn't matter how good your lenses are, this is a simple fact, lenses have good apertures, and diffraction, which is always there, will start to be significant at F11 on low res full frame cameras, and already impacting sharpness at F5.6 on M4/3 cameras. Smaller sensor cameras don't even have mechanical apertures smaller than F5.6 or F8, resorting to internal neutral density filters to control exposure.

The sweet spot is really helpful when you are doing focus stacking - no point in going through the effort if you aren't using the best aperture to get the best sharpness. Also, particularly on fast lenses, lens flaws like field curvature, coma, chromatic aberration and other flaws are at their worst when the lens is wide open - whether you spend $100 or $4000 for a lens.

Some lenses are exceptional - like the Nikkor 105mm F1.4 - which is oustandingly sharp at all apertures until diffraction sets in at F8. The 200mm F2 is in the same company, also extremely sharp - it should be for $7000. But even it improves a bit at F5.6 over F2.

Now you can get some excellent results using F11, F16 and in some cases F22 - with certain subject matter - like macro. The reason is that your visual perception is seeing fine details magnified - even if those fine details aren't that fine. I guess what I am trying to say is that details that you look for when viewing an image at greater distances by moving up close you can see because the macro image is magnified, without the need to move in. So the image "appears" to be super sharp when in reality it is a little soft. But the perception of sharpness is informed by the unusual amount of magnified detail that you would have to move up close to see. Not sure if my choice of words is making the point.

Ignoring the sweet spot is a bit like leaving money on the table in a business transaction. No point in getting the best lenses if you are not using the best apertures for the best image quality whenever possible - creativity with depth of field aside for a moment.
Depends on the lens. Most lenses hit their stride ... (show quote)



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May 1, 2020 08:54:15   #
1Feathercrest Loc: NEPA
 
GoofyNewfie wrote:


Exactly what I do.
I have very good lenses and don’t give the “sweet spot” a thought.
I pick the aperture for the depth of field I want.


Precisely!

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