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Losing faith in mirrorless cameras
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Feb 10, 2020 12:16:32   #
hgrinolds
 
Yes, static electricity can be an issue. As someone mentioned, make sure the lens is clean. A mirrored DSLR does provide a shield and, unlike the D600, does not ‘throw oil’ around. However, any sensor would pick up dust once in the camera. I have a Z7 and use the best practices cited. I have not had an issue but do sky shots with each lens change.

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Feb 10, 2020 12:41:43   #
PHRubin Loc: Nashville TN USA
 
If someone already suggested this, I apologize for the redundancy. I ALWAYS try to remember to turn the camera OFF before changing lenses. The electrical charge when on can attract dust.

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Feb 10, 2020 12:47:43   #
GrandmaG Loc: Flat Rock, MI
 
LFingar wrote:
I have had my EOS R for just over a year and dust on the sensor is not a problem. Unlike other mirrorless interchangable lens cameras, including the EOS RP, when the R is shut off the shutter closes and seals the interior of the camera from dust and debris. This photo from Ken Rockwell's site shows it.


That’s smart!! Maybe Sony will come out with that. It might be worth the upgrade.

I have had dust on my sensor but the rocket blower took care of it. I actually saw the dust land on it! Now I always use the blower just before attaching a new lens and hold the camera facing the ground when putting a lens on while inside the house whenever possible.

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Feb 10, 2020 12:54:27   #
GrandmaG Loc: Flat Rock, MI
 
cameraf4 wrote:
I'm not sure how many here often shoot at f/16 - f/32 but those who do so with mirrorless bodies may want to thank skyspy for the heads-up. Perhaps this problem will never come your way (and we hope it doesn't) but it is something to look out for.


That is not an f stop I normally use nor do I see a need for it except for an occasional landscape shot. Even for that f/16 should be the smallest f/stop needed.

For me, I shoot portraits and people and like large openings for my aperture

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Feb 10, 2020 13:03:12   #
cameraf4 Loc: Delaware
 
GrandmaG wrote:
...For me, I shoot portraits and people and like large openings for my aperture


My daughter does, too. I just never got away from the land, I suppose.

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Feb 10, 2020 13:15:08   #
ButchS Loc: Spokane, WA
 
The OP didn’t say how he/she “manually” cleaned the sensor. If you feel the need to clean the sensor... First try a rocket blower. DO NOT use your breath or compressed air. If you need more than the rocket blower, ONLY use a sensor cleaning kit you can buy at Adorama or B&H. And follow the instructions to the letter. Best is to have it cleaned professionally.

Your breath has moisture in it, that is bad for the sensor. Compressed air has a propellant in it. The air is not pure, also not good for the sensors.

The most important thing is taking great care when changing your lenses. Your sensor should be left unprotected for the bare minimum amount of time. Avoid tilting the camera UP and allowing dust to settle inside. Before removing the lens from your camera, prepare the lens you want to mount by removing the rear lens cap. When ready, remove the previous lens from the camera and immediately mount the next lens. Avoid changing the lens in an outdoor setting, if possible. Cover the mount with a body cap if it is going to be open for more than a few seconds. Never let the camera sit for more than a few seconds without either a lens or a body cap In place.

One of the advantages that a DSLR has over a mirrorless camera, is that the sensor is protected by a closed shutter and a mirror when the lens is being changed. Making them easier to use in a dirty environment.

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Feb 10, 2020 13:29:38   #
skyspy
 
What appears to be smudge is in fact lint. When the lens is stopped down all the way, the artifacts are in better focus and can be easily identified. This artifact has been removed with a blower.

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Feb 10, 2020 13:31:26   #
chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA
 
JD750 wrote:
I have been shooting mirrorless since circa 2009 and DSLR since about 2011. I take reference pics and I watch for sensor goobers. My experiences are that mirrorless requires less sensor cleaning. A lot less. My DSLRs require cleaning every 6m or a year at best. My mirrorless sensors have gone much longer. In fact I can’t remember having to clean a mirrorless sensor. And I watch for Goobers and I take reference pics. If they are there I will see them.

When changing lenses I obey good lens changing hygiene. And “cleaning at startup/shutdown” (all available options) is turned on.

My suspicion is that lens changing hygiene plays a bigger role with mirrorless tech than with DSLR tech. Given good lens changing hygiene a DSLR will spot up in 6m to a year. Given that same hygiene a mirrorless sensor will not spot up.

That’s my 2 cents and I back it up with years of experience. It works for me. YMMV.
I have been shooting mirrorless since circa 2009 a... (show quote)


...just experienced a "dirty" sensor on my Z6 and promptly cleaned it. What you say is golden, I'm notoriously too quick to act in any given situation so pay a tax on that behavior. But now will be *very* aware of when I dismount/mount any new glass. I mean, just look at how easy it is to clean those sensors! Because they are right there, almost poking out of the hole!

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Feb 10, 2020 13:33:35   #
skyspy
 
With the lens stopped all the way down what appears to be a smudge is definitely lint. It has been removed with a blower. I believe I introduced it when I cleaned the body cap with a piece of lint free lens tissue!

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Feb 10, 2020 13:37:58   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
skyspy wrote:
In the attached image you can see what appears to be lint in the image in the upper left portion in the sky. I've been mirrorless cameras for over a year now and have noticed that the sensor is very hard to keep clean. I preformed a test using 2 mirrorless cameras and 2 cameras with mirrors. The camera specs were very similar, full frame with the same native resolutions. Each camera used a 300mm telephoto lens. Each camera was set up with aperture priority and an ISO of 400. The dust became noticeable at f-stops f16 and smaller on the mirrorless camera (f-16 thru f-32). The smaller the stop the more noticeable. The mirrored camera were free of any noticeable aberrations. Each lens was cleaned prior to the testing. The mirrorless camera sensors were cleaned according to the manufacturer instructions and then manually cleaned. All the cleaning did was move the aberrations around or even create new ones. Does the mirror protect the sensor in cameras with mirrors? Does the sensor in mirrorless cameras attract dust because of an electrical charge? Has anybody else noticed this issue on their mirrorless cameras? It is usually most noticeable in clear blue sky like the attachment.
In the attached image you can see what appears to ... (show quote)


Artifacts caused by any lint in the system might be more noticable because of diffraction. I have been using Fuji mirrorless cameras for several years now and have never noticed any of the problems you are describing. But then, I have never used F16 and above. If anything I would expect the mirrored systems to be dirtier because of the mirror slapping around next to the sensor. If you take care in changing lenses, there should be no debris problem with a mirrorless which provides lens cleaning on both on and off. I suspect your problem has much to do with the technique of lens changing and your environment. Also the artifacts in the sample image appear to be out of focus and I would suspect they are in or on your lens rather than on the sensor.

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Feb 10, 2020 13:42:05   #
skyspy
 
Cleaned using manufacturer instructions and a blower. I still prefer using prime lens instead of zooms for various reasons. I do have several zooms for specific events.

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Feb 10, 2020 14:31:18   #
Selene03
 
MW wrote:
I think it is just a matter of random chance. If you have two camera identical camera bodies, one will have more dust than the other. Each has a 50% chance of being the villain.

I switched from Nikon to Fuji. Each has dust spots but not very often. Neither could sensibly be called superior to the other in that regard.


I don't think it is so random. I have had way worse problems with dust on all of my Sony cameras than any other cameras I have owned except for the Nikon D600, which was atrocious. The Sonys are almost as bad, but at least one can mostly blow the dust off with a rocket blower. It is my one complaint about Sony cameras (now an a7riv). I have had one dust spot in all of my combined Canon gear--many cameras for many years. It was after using an old push-pull lens in an extreme dust storm in Death Valley. Sonys get dust no matter where you use them or how careful you are changing lenses.

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Feb 10, 2020 14:32:31   #
Abo
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
One can sooner stop the sun from rising than deny the arrival of mirrorless cameras.


Easy... Fast aircraft, and fly West... stops the sun rising

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Feb 10, 2020 14:55:19   #
skyspy
 
That is also the camera I'm using! I didn't mention the make before because I didn't want to influence the responses. Does it matter what quality setting you use? I'm using raw.

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Feb 10, 2020 15:15:00   #
skyspy
 
I just did another test. I do believe the higher the quality setting(61 megapixels) the worse the problem is. At standard quality (24 megapixels) you can't see the artifacts at any f-stop setting. So what I'm seeing are very, very small and aren't visible until higher quality settings

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