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Losing faith in mirrorless cameras
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Feb 10, 2020 09:20:44   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
Delderby wrote:
Makes me feel lucky that I have a 45-175 for my Panasonic that has an internal zoom and focus.


I used a Nikon 200-500 without internal zoom and over the five years I have owned it I have not had any dust within the lens. Non internal zooms usually gather dust within the lens, they rarely throw dust back to the sensor. However, some PUSH PULL lenses could cause an issue. Mine is a turn zoom ring, not a push pull.

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Feb 10, 2020 09:25:27   #
agillot
 
look , assuming it is just a piece of fluff [ not stuck on ] use a household vacuum cleaner to remove this , also do lens .any vacuum cleaner that has a accessories hose can be use , just hold the hose a inch or 2 from camera opening .that will do it .a lot safer that using anything to scrub .also do the rear of lens .been doing this for years on dslr with no problems , spots go away .

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Feb 10, 2020 09:31:27   #
BooIsMyCat Loc: Somewhere
 
It's my understanding that small apertures WILL show dust spots - even on a newly cleaned sensor.

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Feb 10, 2020 09:35:24   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
billnikon wrote:
I used a Nikon 200-500 without internal zoom and over the five years I have owned it I have not had any dust within the lens. Non internal zooms usually gather dust within the lens, they rarely throw dust back to the sensor. However, some PUSH PULL lenses could cause an issue. Mine is a turn zoom ring, not a push pull.




Older, pre-digital film lenses often had no sealing (or weak seals) against dust. Push-pull film zooms are notoriously bad choices for digital cameras.

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Feb 10, 2020 09:44:40   #
BobHartung Loc: Bettendorf, IA
 
skyspy wrote:
In the attached image you can see what appears to be lint in the image in the upper left portion in the sky. I've been mirrorless cameras for over a year now and have noticed that the sensor is very hard to keep clean. I preformed a test using 2 mirrorless cameras and 2 cameras with mirrors. The camera specs were very similar, full frame with the same native resolutions. Each camera used a 300mm telephoto lens. Each camera was set up with aperture priority and an ISO of 400. The dust became noticeable at f-stops f16 and smaller on the mirrorless camera (f-16 thru f-32). The smaller the stop the more noticeable. The mirrored camera were free of any noticeable aberrations. Each lens was cleaned prior to the testing. The mirrorless camera sensors were cleaned according to the manufacturer instructions and then manually cleaned. All the cleaning did was move the aberrations around or even create new ones. Does the mirror protect the sensor in cameras with mirrors? Does the sensor in mirrorless cameras attract dust because of an electrical charge? Has anybody else noticed this issue on their mirrorless cameras? It is usually most noticeable in clear blue sky like the attachment.
In the attached image you can see what appears to ... (show quote)


I would have to agree with others that your artifact looks like an artifact of an attempted cleaning. Dust particles are usually pinpoint in size.

All digital cameras will collect dust on the sensor if you do not follow simple rules of lens changing. A few:
1. Do not change lenses in a dusty atmosphere.
2. When changing lenses minimize the time there is no lens attached to the camera by having the replacement "ready to attach".
3. Always keep the opening to the body cavity facing downwards.
4. I'm sure others can add others.

For me, I carry two bodies, change lenses in my car/home/motel room and try not to change in the field unless I am compelled to do so. I can always zoom with my feet.

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Feb 10, 2020 09:55:58   #
odujim Loc: New Jersey
 
In my experience, I never had to clean any of the sensors in my Olympus m4/3 cameras. I now use Nikon DSLRs exclusively and must regularly clean their sensors (once a year, at least.) I was shooting with D7000, D7100 & D610 and currently have a D7500 and D800e. They have all had the same issue with dust, but a wet clean is simple to do and I regularly use a blower.

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Feb 10, 2020 10:05:43   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
This example shows the results of a mirrorless cleaning exercise with just the Giotto Rocket Blower.

An exercise in sensor cleaning

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Feb 10, 2020 10:16:36   #
Yeti Bigtoe
 
I’ve had no issues over the years with mirrorless camera sensors - but I am careful with my fur.

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Feb 10, 2020 10:44:58   #
jrcarpe Loc: Jacksonville,AR
 
I will stick with my Canon 70S SLR and my Canon Elon7 (Film) for all the seasons I have left on God's green earth.They have served me well.

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Feb 10, 2020 10:46:40   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Beauty has so many forms, and the most beautiful thing is the confidence to go mirrorless.

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Feb 10, 2020 10:47:15   #
Ioannis
 
JD750 wrote:
Who are you asking the question of?

Myself, I only swap lenses when necessary. It is not necessary to swap lenses for me to put the camera in the drawer. So my answer is I leave the lens on the camera.

17% humidity is low. Static electricity will definitely play a role at that humidity level. Have you considered adding a humidifier to your lens cleaning & changing area? 30-70% is a good range for humidity.


I think it’s an alien taking off after visiting earth.

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Feb 10, 2020 11:07:33   #
Fredrick Loc: Former NYC, now San Francisco Bay Area
 
skyspy wrote:
Do you remove your lens after every shoot or leave it on the camera? I'm constantly changing lens and usually store the camera detached from the lens. I follow good practice when changing the lens: clean the body of the camera before removing the lens. Clean body and rear lens cap before attaching and never remove the lens unless in the proper environment. But no matter how careful you are, the sensor will evenually need cleaning. My problem is that I believe I'm just moving the goobers around when using a blower instead of removing them from the body. That is why I'm wondering if the sensor has an electrostatic charge that keeps attracting the dust. I live in a very dry desert environment, about 17% humidity. Maybe I'm overreacting. The manufacturer instructs to use f11 when checking for artifacts. I usually start seeing issues at f16 when testing. I usually shoot around f8 in full manual mode. But the attached pic was shoot at f8. Everytime I try to clean the sensor, it seems to just change the pattern I see.
Do you remove your lens after every shoot or leave... (show quote)


If it changes the pattern you see each time you clean the sensor, then it may very well have to do with your cleaning process itself. Have it cleaned professionally and your problem may disappear.

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Feb 10, 2020 11:36:19   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
JD750 wrote:
I have been shooting mirrorless since circa 2009 and DSLR since about 2011. I take reference pics and I watch for sensor goobers. My experiences are that mirrorless requires less sensor cleaning. A lot less. My DSLRs require cleaning every 6m or a year at best. My mirrorless sensors have gone much longer. In fact I can’t remember having to clean a mirrorless sensor. And I watch for Goobers and I take reference pics. If they are there I will see them.

When changing lenses I obey good lens changing hygiene. And “cleaning at startup/shutdown” (all available options) is turned on.

My suspicion is that lens changing hygiene plays a bigger role with mirrorless tech than with DSLR tech. Given good lens changing hygiene a DSLR will spot up in 6m to a year. Given that same hygiene a mirrorless sensor will not spot up.

That’s my 2 cents and I back it up with years of experience. It works for me. YMMV.
I have been shooting mirrorless since circa 2009 a... (show quote)


JD, that's been my experience as well. We had about 430 Canon dSLRs of various models at the school portrait company where I used to work. Most NEVER took the lenses off (28-75mm f/2.8 Tamron zooms on APS-C bodies, 20D to 50D). Many of the cameras required cleaning a couple of times a year, anyway.

Those Canons made an average of 2500 exposures per week each "Fall" (About August 1 to December 20, usually). In "Spring" (February 1 through May 15 or so), they averaged a third of that. So they saw moderately heavy use.

Most of the sensor dust appeared to be foam bits from the mirror dampener, plus lubricants and metal shavings from mechanical wear parts, and a tiny amount of dust sucked in around the zoom mechanisms.

Different camera models have different issues. The Nikon D600 was especially notorious for its tendency to spew oil onto the sensor from the mechanisms inside it. The problem was bad enough to require both a recall (now expired, 1/10/2020):

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/service-and-support/service-advisories/updated-technical-service-advisory-for-users-of-the-nikon-d600-digital-slr-camera.html

...and a re-design (as the D610, which if you search the 'Net, you'll find had the same problems). For this reason, used D600s and D610s are risky buys.

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Feb 10, 2020 11:36:33   #
radiojohn
 
This mirrorless "dust" concern and ideas of where and how to change lenses, suggests this thought:

Looking far ahead (in my crystal ball) I wonder if removable lenses will become largely out of fashion.
Nikon already has a "bridge" camera with (I think) an 83X zoom to 4,000mm. It's $799 and has a "bird-watching mode."

Today, internal processing software in bridge cameras seems to correct lens distortions as no "film" bridge camera ever could do. Anti-shake and high ISOs help with f/stops unusable in the past.

Again, I'm not talking this happening this year, or the next. But I recall when my basic "kit" was a 35mm, 50mm, and a 135mm. At that time zooms were not considered worth using, but things got better.

It sure would solve the problem of dust on sensors!

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Feb 10, 2020 12:03:45   #
gtheodore Loc: Fort Collins CO
 
I switched to mirrorless six years ago and I’ve found that I have fewer issues with dust accumulation and, when I do, it’s mostly due to pilot error. The charge on the sensor should dissipate when the camera is off. Now and then, you may need to use a wet method to clean the sensor. If that “smudge” in your sky moves around when you use the blower, then it’s not really a smudge. If it stays in place, use the wet method. Make sure your sensor is pointed down when you use a blower and blow out the chamber too.

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