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Dec 3, 2019 06:55:19   #
yssirk123 Loc: New Jersey
 
The problem with Socialism (and wealth redistribution in general) is sooner or later you run out of other people's money.

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Dec 3, 2019 08:34:11   #
2Dragons Loc: The Back of Beyond
 
yssirk123 wrote:
The problem with Socialism (and wealth redistribution in general) is sooner or later you run out of other people's money.


Margaret Thatcher summed Socialism up with those words. She cut right to the chase and eliminated the multitude of reasons "why".

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Dec 3, 2019 09:27:11   #
Bill 45
 
2Dragons wrote:
Margaret Thatcher summed Socialism up with those words. She cut right to the chase and eliminated the multitude of reasons "why".


What?

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Dec 3, 2019 09:54:39   #
IDguy Loc: Idaho
 
Bill 45 wrote:
I having hard time understanding what you have wrote. Socialism has been and still is being use as a front for a dictatorship. Communism is out and out dictatorship. Read Lenin, you will see now he use Communism philosophy to justify a dictatorship. He also wrote that Socialism is part of Communism, which it is not. Real Socialism has and is working in small nations. Question is would Socialism work in a large nation like the Untied States. I don't have an answer for that.


Most writers believe the only difference between Communism and Socialism is the word itself.

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Dec 3, 2019 10:18:03   #
2Dragons Loc: The Back of Beyond
 
Bill 45 wrote:
What?


You had to read the quote from the post that I was posting a comment on. "The problem with socialism is that eventually it runs out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

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Dec 3, 2019 11:02:08   #
Abo
 
Ron Of TN wrote:
"Democracy will soon degenerate into an anarchy, such an anarchy that every man will do what is right in his own eyes and no man's life or property or reputation or liberty will be secure, and every one of these will soon mould itself into a system of subordination of all the moral virtues and intellectual abilities, all the powers of wealth, beauty, wit and science, to the wanton pleasures, the capricious will, and the detestable cruelty of one or a very few."

--John Adams (A Defense of the American Constitutions, 1787) Reference: The Works of John Adams, C.F. Adams, ed., vol. 6 (8-9); The Founders Constitution

Remember, this nation was founded as a republic ruled by law, not by men!
"Democracy will soon degenerate into an anarc... (show quote)


It's not just the US... we're getting ever closer to the law of the jungle as time goes on
down here in Australia too.

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Dec 3, 2019 11:08:29   #
Abo
 
IDguy wrote:
Most writers believe the only difference between Communism and Socialism is the word itself.


No language says "yes" to the blatantly obvious as well as Russian: Daaahhhh!

Of course formerly communist Russia was "USSR"... "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics"

Communism is dead, and Socialism is its stinking unburied carcass imho.

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Dec 3, 2019 12:17:54   #
Bill 45
 
Abo wrote:
It's not just the US... we're getting ever closer to the law of the jungle as time goes on
down here in Australia too.


One of your problems in Australia is that you can't keep a PM in office. We have one big moron, you have many small morons running around.

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Dec 3, 2019 16:54:36   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
Bob Werre wrote:
My take on much of this is that in my neck of the woods (Upper Midwest) my grandparents did receive free land (called 3 quarters) to farm on. Also the local churches built some basic dug-in sod houses for the last bunch of immigrants to start out in. A couple of those homes, although no longer usable, were around into the 60's. So there was government support and church support. How you determine what you call that is what your attitude might be--is it a hand-out or a hand up? Since all the area was settled by displaced German's from Russia most were equal in wealth or lack of. So with a couple of exceptions nobody really had much so there was little reason to commit crime. To continue, the various railroads placed ads for the free/cheap (Indian) land with the idea that good crops meant boxcars of grain moving to market and Sears products moving back to the farm! Some areas did well until a few years of bad crops, then they left, packed up by the thousands. Later on in my hometown, during the depression again, hundreds moved West to Washington and California mostly. During this time, the government came in and bought cattle from the farmers, drove them into a pit and shot them in an effort to stabilize prices and lessen the demand on the poor hay crops and barren grazing land. So we had support via the government for the farmers and the young workers found a few dollars in the CCC. In today's world what kind of credit would you need to kick start a life from nothing, especially if you're not of the same heritage? So if your family is from India, Ethiopia or Sudan you better hope they have family money because there's no free land or a sod house to live in! To continue just a bit my Son worked for a Latino gentlemen who's family predated the state & country of Texas--his family lived on land grants from Mexico--yet he has problems with that heritage in the eyes of many here.
My take on much of this is that in my neck of the ... (show quote)


Unfortunately times have changed and the world has grown up per say. So if you want to immigrate to anywhere you better be saving your pennies and working 3 jobs to do so. If your country is terrible then gather up all the working class and poor and change the country. Unfortunately the United States of America due to the laziness and apathy of her citizens has allowed the federal government to much control over the States and companies, allowed a new career to be created called politician and those ladies and gentlemen have borrowed the country into just short of bankruptcy. While we still treat illegal immigrants better than our citizens occasionally or in some respects the country has no real money to spend on anything if fiscal responsibility is shown. We are on the verge of a great and unpleasant upheaval be it opposing views or very possibly the calling in or ceasing to loan the country money by its major lenders. These lenders are not within the country and they are not our ally's. China being the largest. So let's try to settle our country down pay off our debts and borrow not a cent more ever. Then we may be able to give LEGAL immigrants a hand up not a hand out.

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Dec 3, 2019 17:07:33   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
bonjac wrote:
To be young is to be idealistic. It seems to me the young are really rebelling against an economic system does not serve it's populace. They see and experience the impact of income disparity, and recognize they will not be able to live a decent life because of excessive cost of education, healthcare, etc., so they look to gov't to fill the void. I don't see this as communism but rather as a look toward some degree of socialism to fill the gap created by income disparity. Much of our political unrest can be attributed to the current state of the economy and its structure. We need to restructure our form of capitalism to serve all of society rather than society serving capitalism. If left alone, capitalism can be brutal. It needs boundaries so that it better serves all of us. I think some of the unrest in the country would be allayed.
To be young is to be idealistic. It seems to me t... (show quote)


I happen to rub shoulders with many college students and recent grads. It appears that about half of them with massive student loan debt used the money to live off of buy a new car and live the life of Riley during the 4 or 6 years of schooling of which 25% of those chose degrees without thinking about employment. They just wanted to be whatever they dreamed. That is well and good but as with every decision one makes there are consequences. I do not believe in forgiving student loans because a lot of students payed their loans off. How is it fair to them that suffered and did the right thing. It is still very easy to become gainfully employed in this system but because it may not be your dream job or you have to start at the bottom and put in 5 or 10 years to move up the youth feel like the system is against them. The youth nowadays due to my generation and the one after mine have done our children a huge disservice. We spoiled them. We did not teach them that the world is competive and doesn't really care about you. How to repair this I have no idea but that is the root of the problem.

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Dec 3, 2019 17:10:21   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
PGHphoto wrote:
Whenever I see comments like this, I wonder if people really understand what socialism is as a method of governance. Contrary to the media's portrayal, the hallmark of socialism is the government ownership of production, exchange and distribution methods. Translation is the collective populace (ie government) controls all aspects of the economic processes. The government is not just a redistribution mechanism in socialism.

What is really advocated by today's so-called "progressives" is simple stealing of the money from individuals who have it to give to whoever they deem needing it. These days those 'needing' it seem to be the ones who are most vocal regardless of their percentage of the population. Today's generation (and many from previous generations) doesn't understand that the solutions to the financial inequity they perceive is actually caused by the exact thing they think will fix everything. Handouts without a return to production factors and "rights" to whatever they want.

Outside of charity which is biblically mandated for those unable to work, I agree with the biblical concept of "If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat" 2 Thes 3:10 . Independent of the religious aspects - doen't it just make sense ? That does NOT mean we get to decide who has value - we ALL have value. Only means that nobody besides those who CAN'T work are entitled to eat without making a tangible contribution to society. If they have no way of doing any work but desire to, they are entitled to our support. Even a small gesture of contributing to the greater good of the community is considered work as long as the desire is to serve the community to the utmost of their ability in doing what the community needs. Also, most importantly, the community decides what they need not the individual called upon to work.

Can somebody help me off my soapbox ????
Whenever I see comments like this, I wonder if peo... (show quote)


Never will I help you off your soapbox. You need to spread the word.

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Dec 3, 2019 17:15:21   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
Bill 45 wrote:
I having hard time understanding what you have wrote. Socialism has been and still is being use as a front for a dictatorship. Communism is out and out dictatorship. Read Lenin, you will see now he use Communism philosophy to justify a dictatorship. He also wrote that Socialism is part of Communism, which it is not. Real Socialism has and is working in small nations. Question is would Socialism work in a large nation like the Untied States. I don't have an answer for that.


Please tell me the nation's that socialism is working in. I'm not trying to be aurguementive. Everyone says Sweden and Denmark. That is not true. They are NOT socialist countries. I want to look at a true socialist country and see how it works. I've never had a opportunity to do so because I have only saw the failures. Thank you

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Dec 3, 2019 17:42:10   #
G Brown Loc: Sunny Bognor Regis West Sussex UK
 
There was an interesting article on Aljazzhiri:
Since the fall of the Berlin Wall more right wing governments have flourished without the fear of 'the working class' turning communist. The poor have been blamed for not working harder yet wages have not risen because the 'people' repaid banks failing...Austerity has greater effect on the poor, it also creates more poor.
House prices have increased more rapidly in the last two decades than in the previous years despite massive growth in housing. The % of young home owners is at an all time low. Companies are going bankrupt so that directors can buy out the profitable bits at discount. Those that post growth, fail to post how much debt they incurred to purchase their competitors....Often their senior management 'bail out' with a golden handshake prior to the rapid decline in company worth when banks no longer lend them new cash and they cannot continue to expand. It isn't profit that drives this: it is personal greed.

Everyone understands that there is no free money.....and beginning to realize that you cannot work your way up by your labour. BIG money is playing roulette with the stock market. Ordinary people have no clue as to who owns what. Governments are 'bailing out' a shrinking capitalism. Capitalism itself has ceased to have any conscience.

NB UK Labour Party promised to get British Telecom (Which was only recently de-nationalised) to provide free Broadband to every household...(which actually would not cost very much in new infra-structure) BT answer.....They moved their registered office off shore....prior to the election on the 12 December! Even the dumb electorate know that election promises hardly ever are based on reality and rarely get adopted.

We are only a Century from The Victorian era, When the poor were being blamed for 'being poor', disease was being blamed on the poor and social unrest was blamed on the poor...Then it was the rich industrialists that built the modern society that we live in - NOT middle management or Banking. Unfortunately the Billionaires today do not live where their money sits.

This is not just true in the UK but many other countries too.

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Dec 3, 2019 17:48:49   #
dwermske
 
Starshot wrote:
Socialism as it's normally defined doesn't work in general, that's true.
Yet we don't have to fall into the limited thinking mode of either/or, black or white, etc.
As Bernie Sanders keeps re-iterating; calling it 'Democratic Socialism'..not Communism..
big difference!
And with his view of it, he's taking the best of Democracy and Socialist ideas to make a more
equitable and workable system that can serve everyone's best interest.
Of course some will dis-agree (the wealthy) that it doesn't serve their interest. Greed and the inability to see the 'bigger picture' is not something we should have to compromise for in this case!
Socialism as it's normally defined doesn't work in... (show quote)


BS!! Joseph Stalin was a self proclaimed Democratic Socialist and look at where he took his country. Right into a Communist dictatorship with millions being murdered in the name of his form of Democratic Socialism! YES! Democratic Socialism is nothing more than a creeping form Communism wrapped up in a pretty name. Bernie Sanders is a Communist and has loved communism nearly all his life. He just calls it Democratic Socialism to make it palatable to fools that can't tell the difference.

Regarding education; spending thousands of dollars on an education that will never earn you enough money to pay it back is down right stupid. I see kids today freely borrowing money for an education that literally has no chance of enabling them to earn enough money to pay it back and then complaining about it. Actions have consequences. This lesson should have be learned early in life, not after you graduate college.

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Dec 3, 2019 18:21:34   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
dwermske wrote:
BS!! Joseph Stalin was a self proclaimed Democratic Socialist and look at where he took his country. Right into a Communist dictatorship with millions being murdered in the name of his form of Democratic Socialism! YES! Democratic Socialism is nothing more than a creeping form Communism wrapped up in a pretty name. Bernie Sanders is a Communist and has loved communism nearly all his life. He just calls it Democratic Socialism to make it palatable to fools that can't tell the difference.

Regarding education; spending thousands of dollars on an education that will never earn you enough money to pay it back is down right stupid. I see kids today freely borrowing money for an education that literally has no chance of enabling them to earn enough money to pay it back and then complaining about it. Actions have consequences. This lesson should have be learned early in life, not after you graduate college.
BS!! Joseph Stalin was a self proclaimed Democrati... (show quote)


I agree with you wholeheartedly. My generation of a lot of them have kids to much and never made them work hard to get those wants. The lesson you speak of should have been taught when they wanted an Xbox. Work and buy one. Careers used to be conciled in schools when I was young. They tested us as far as manuel dexterity and knowledge and gave use lists of careers we may be suitable for. I'm not sure if they even do that anymore. I chose my career in electronics in 1976 because I could see a very bright future. The schools back then tried to help you decide what you wanted to be and what you were actually maybe qualified to be based on testing. You could be anything you wanted but they educated you to the facts. I'm almost sure none of this is done now. Probably just fairy tales and dreams.

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