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Mirrorless as it should be
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Nov 30, 2019 14:06:50   #
Salo Loc: Cherry Hill, NJ
 
I have both Nikon and Olympus camera systems. It's probably because I'm older but the small and light in weight mirrorless Oly's are what I always reach for these days. Yeah, I know, the MFT sensor is smaller by about half, but the images that it can produce are still outstanding under most conditions. If I were a professional making my living through photography, I would likely want to carry with me the most outstanding equipment I could find regardless of size and weight, but I'm only a multi-decade serious photo enthusiast who fell in love with MFT at about age 70. Chances are you will too when you get to my age (depending on what newer technology has to offer).

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Dec 1, 2019 07:01:53   #
twice_shooter
 
Not looking to be confrontational here ... I just don’t see the obsession with weight. There are many benefits to Mirrorless, and I do have a Fuji xt3, but for me weight is not one of them. I like big heavy cameras. I like having my head behind a big solid piece of titanium. There’s a certain sense of separation and “safety” I can’t adequately put into words. Give me a 1dx or a D850 and I’m connected and ready to make photographs. Although the xt3 is a phenomenal camera, it does not give me the ear to ear grin the others do. But I’m probably in the minority.

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Dec 1, 2019 08:08:16   #
gessman Loc: Colorado
 
twice_shooter wrote:
Not looking to be confrontational here ... I just don’t see the obsession with weight. There are many benefits to Mirrorless, and I do have a Fuji xt3, but for me weight is not one of them. I like big heavy cameras. I like having my head behind a big solid piece of titanium. There’s a certain sense of separation and “safety” I can’t adequately put into words. Give me a 1dx or a D850 and I’m connected and ready to make photographs. Although the xt3 is a phenomenal camera, it does not give me the ear to ear grin the others do. But I’m probably in the minority.
Not looking to be confrontational here ... I just ... (show quote)


Not aimed at you particularly but following you is a good place for me to fit into the conversation, if there is a place. I've always had excellent strength but often, with age and things like long term diabetes, some of us suddenly awaken one morning a mere shell of our usual self and what we did yesterday is no longer comfortable to do and suddenly "every little bit helps." That's what has happened to me in the last few years, always an exerciser and a "lifter," and when I exercise I no longer "build up" but it just takes more out of me and takes me further down.

At pushing 83 as a nearly 50 year diabetic with cardiovascular issues, a used up body, muscle elasticity gone, it's no longer a matter of what I want - it's a matter of what I can comfortably do or else I pack it in and that's what is in the future for a lot of you who are not there yet in your current preferences and abilities. It may be at a different point on the spectrum but if you're lucky enough to make it to THAT day, as I have for me, you might want to start looking ahead to THAT day when you adjust or quit. I've adjusted and won't be quitting any time soon. Like Toby Keith's song says, "I'm not as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was" although I'm not convinced he was talking about photography.

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Dec 1, 2019 08:30:32   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
I do not use Canon or Nikon mirrorless cameras. I own two Olympus bodies and while I cannot discuss the size and weight of other systems at least with Olympus the lenses, in a majority of cases are smaller and lighter.
I know that many mirrorless photographers are using lenses from other systems. To me to a certain extent that defeats the purpose of a camera that is small and lighter. I use what Olympus and Panasonic have designed for their cameras.

I agree with Salo, the M43 system could have a smaller sensor but it has been embraced by many professionals because of the quality of the images. I could not be happier with it.

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Dec 1, 2019 08:48:10   #
whitehall Loc: Canada
 
Call me ignorant but assuming equal number of sensor size and megapixels, why would a top of tge line mirrorless of the same brand be better than a top of the line DLSR in liveview mode?

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Dec 1, 2019 08:59:29   #
ggab Loc: ?
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Stan Lee said the greatest superpower he gave his characters was luck. Would you rather be lucky or have a mirrorless camera?


Lucky

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Dec 1, 2019 09:01:15   #
ggab Loc: ?
 
whitehall wrote:
Call me ignorant but assuming equal number of sensor size and megapixels, why would a top of tge line mirrorless of the same brand be better than a top of the line DLSR in liveview mode?


Packaged technology and marketing.
Those are the only reasons.

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Dec 1, 2019 09:04:02   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Lady Luck is widely know to favor the photographers with mirrorless cameras.

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Dec 1, 2019 09:06:41   #
ggab Loc: ?
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Lady Luck is widely know to favor the photographers with mirrorless cameras.


So, by extension "Photographers with mirrorless cameras are lucky, Photographers with DSLR's are good"
So the question becomes, would you rather be lucky or good??

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Dec 1, 2019 09:37:17   #
CaptainBobBrown
 
I tried the Oly EM-1 and got discouraged upon learning that the M4/3 manufacturers had no plans for a decent super-telephoto. I tried the Oly 300mm lens but it was nowhere as good as even my 3rd party zooms on my Nikon bodies. Now Nikon's Z mirrorless series sounds good but no long lenses in the 500 mm plus range so the Z's are of little use to me for birds/wildlife. It's true that mirrorless mechanics are quieter but, at least with the EM-1 that didn't help because the viewfinder was too slow and ultimately failed ... twice. Can't use the back panel for serious birds/wildlife work. Might as well just use a cell phone. For me the weight solution is the line of PF lenses Nikon is developing. My 500 PF prime lens is about the same size and weight of my 70-200 and I can carry it all day or with a monopod. The body size difference is irrelevant compared to all glass lens weight. For example, the traditional Nikon 300 mm f2.8 non-PF lens is a wonderful lens but a bear to lug around.

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Dec 1, 2019 09:50:40   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
whitehall wrote:
Call me ignorant but assuming equal number of sensor size and megapixels, why would a top of tge line mirrorless of the same brand be better than a top of the line DLSR in liveview mode?


Because you can see that live view through the viewfinder.

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Dec 1, 2019 09:53:03   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
CaptainBobBrown wrote:
I tried the Oly EM-1 and got discouraged upon learning that the M4/3 manufacturers had no plans for a decent super-telephoto. I tried the Oly 300mm lens but it was nowhere as good as even my 3rd party zooms on my Nikon bodies. Now Nikon's Z mirrorless series sounds good but no long lenses in the 500 mm plus range so the Z's are of little use to me for birds/wildlife. It's true that mirrorless mechanics are quieter but, at least with the EM-1 that didn't help because the viewfinder was too slow and ultimately failed ... twice. Can't use the back panel for serious birds/wildlife work. Might as well just use a cell phone. For me the weight solution is the line of PF lenses Nikon is developing. My 500 PF prime lens is about the same size and weight of my 70-200 and I can carry it all day or with a monopod. The body size difference is irrelevant compared to all glass lens weight. For example, the traditional Nikon 300 mm f2.8 non-PF lens is a wonderful lens but a bear to lug around.
I tried the Oly EM-1 and got discouraged upon lear... (show quote)


The Panasonic Leica 100-400 (200-800 equivalent) is an excellent lens for MFT.

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Dec 1, 2019 10:09:42   #
Haydon
 
I really don't think Canon cares that much about weight with their mirrorless. I'm sure they will have other F1.8 and F4 lenses in the future with weight saving.

This small chart clearly indicates they aren't necessarily lighter. The real benefit is IQ coming from the new lenses.

EF 50 1.2 545 grams
RF 50 1.2 950 grams

EF 85 1.2 1,025 grams
RF 85 1.2 1,195 grams

EF 24-70 2.8 II 600 grams
RF 24-70 900 grams

All three of these lenses are heavier than their EF counterpart and the 50 is considerably more.

As to Sony, I haven't investigated but typically their bodies are smaller at a sacrifice to ergonomics.

I'm waiting this out for now. I want to see dual card slots, competitive eye autofocus and a new sensor. I realize Canon tried to keep the price down by "re-purposing" the 5DIV and 6DII sensor but I'm looking for new tech before I consider biting.

Much like TriX, I have a firm stable of EF L lenses and selling them for RF isn't in my game plan. It's just not economically feasible.

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Dec 1, 2019 10:26:29   #
jtwind
 
For me the advantage is having live view in the viewfinder! That changes everything!

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Dec 1, 2019 10:48:27   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
Architect1776 wrote:
We heard how mirrorless was to be smaller and lighter.
<snip>...
Here is a comparison:
Sony 70-200mm f2.8; 52.21 oz and 200mm long and 88mm diameter.
Canon RF 70-200mm f2.8; 37.76 oz and 146mm long and 89.9mm diameter.


Here is another comparison. Approximately the same lenses, equivalent focal length and speed.
_

Nikon D750 90mm F1.8 and Olympus OM-D 45mm f1.8
Nikon D750 90mm F1.8 and Olympus OM-D 45mm f1.8...
(Download)

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