California Forest Fires
Oct 29, 2019 20:14:46 #
I suppose a huge storm picking up a few farms worth of tomatoes and then dumping them on someone could be a real problem.
Oct 30, 2019 05:36:04 #
foathog wrote:
The power lines are very old. The infrastructure in this country is archaic. But don't worry our war machine beats everyone by far. How do you think we bailed you guys out twice in the last hundred years? LOL
And, of course the WALL, is so much more important than a few fires??
Oct 30, 2019 05:39:38 #
That's only in California. The rest of the country doesn't have the issues as in CA. CA has a lot of state government as they welcome undocumented immigrants, let homeless stay that way (homeless) so they can mess up the local neighborhoods, spread dysentery and other nasty diseases. The local government just doesn't care. Once the big earthquake comes it should all fall into the ocean. ; -)
Oct 30, 2019 05:45:24 #
johneccles wrote:
Once again California is experiencing terrible for... (show quote)
And if it's not fires burning houses, its Tornadoes turning them to matchsticks.
I'm wondering if America knows about the technology of making bricks. Stacked nearly on top of each other with mortar bond & they not only don't burn, but they take a hell of a lot of energy to blow then down too.
Then after each tragedy, yep, they come back & build the same damned thing.
Oct 30, 2019 06:17:24 #
Oct 30, 2019 06:27:16 #
foathog wrote:
The power lines are very old. The infrastructure in this country is archaic. But don't worry our war machine beats everyone by far. How do you think we bailed you guys out twice in the last hundred years? LOL
Didn't bail us out, helped us out. Every dollar paid back (lend lease). But we can't repay those who made the ultimate sacrifice whom I shall remember this 11/11, along with our own and other allies.
Had you not helped us out though, America wouldn't be anything like America is today.
Oct 30, 2019 06:31:09 #
mas24
Loc: Southern CA
Building houses and buildings with bricks in California is not allowed anymore, because of earthquakes. Bricks collapse much easier than stucco or wood structures during earthquakes. But, in the State that is known for wildfires, PG&E, the largest power company in California, refuses to maintain their equipment, and to clear dry brush and trees that are close to the power lines. Last year, there were approximately 100 fatalities in California due to wildfires. Many refused to evacuate. A big mistake. Knowing about the fatalities from last year, evacuation orders were complied with this time around. Better to lose your house than life. Results, no fatalities, thus far. Yes, early evacuations are critical. Especially with high and shifting winds, which make it difficult to fight fires. These fire fighters are working 12+ hours a day. Getting very little fluids and foods in their bodies. It's a tough job. And dangerous at times. The State Government is to blame too. Because, of their environmental policies that were enforced by the previous Governor, and continues with the current Governor. The Wall is a Federal issue, and has nothing to do with Wildfires in California. A whole different matter.
Oct 30, 2019 06:53:44 #
SteveR wrote:
During last year's fires there was a story about a guy who built a house using fireproof materials. Sounds like a plan for rebuilding in these areas. Also hafta wonder about the possiblilty of putting powerlines underground in these highly combustible areas.
It's very expensive to place utilities underground (gas, electric).
Oct 30, 2019 06:59:02 #
[quote=robertjerl][quote=johneccles]Once again California is experiencing terrible forest fires destroying homes, farms and businesses leaving behind a trail of damage affecting 1000's of residents
I feel very sorry for what is happening to our US friends but I cannot understand how the authorities allow houses built of wood are erected in a forest which regularly has these awful forest fires.
Why are the Electric Power companies permitted to erect power lines at such a low level so that sparks ignite the trees?
Here in the UK power lines are suspended from pylons which are 50 meters high and sparking is very unusual, in the US it seems the power supplies are of very poor quality if sparking is a regular occurrence, the power companies obviously know this is a problem so they shut the power off.[/quote
A large part of the problem in California is the State government and environmental laws.
The environmentalists got cutting brush and trees made very hard to get permits for to the point most just say "forget about it". So the dead leaves, needles etc build up, dry in our long hot summers and can burn like gasoline(petrol) if a fire starts. Every little fire started by lightening or other causes is put out as soon as possible so most of that "under burden" builds up for years or decades. In the real natural way those small fires burn fast and not very hot clearing out the under burden without killing the mature trees and the ash acts as fertilizer. But protect it from fire and don't allow it to be cleaned up and then you get a hot dry spell with strong winds and a fire almost explodes, two or three big ones and the fire fighters are too thin on the ground to fight them very well - remember they still need to cover the towns and cities. So they use trained teams of prisoners from minimum security prisons, National Guard soldiers and teams from other states, if they don't have fires of their own. Some of the Indian tribes train teams on their reservations and travel where needed. Those teams and the prisoners often get cheered by residents as heroes (they are, lots of stories of them risking their lives to help people).
The power companies were urged/required to build wind farms and solar farms for "renewable" energy - then they need transmission lines to get that power some where. The long distance towers are 100-120 feet tall with the lowest power lines at 60-70 feet. Bury the lines in pipes, NO, too much damage to the environment/land. Of course those buried lines last a lot longer, no wear and tear from wind, rain etc and even if they spark, no fire under ground inside a pipe.
Then the power companies were required to give people rebates etc for: electric cars, charging stations for same, home solar installation, new lower power using appliances etc etc etc.
And the stock/bond holders would rebel and vote everyone out if they don't get a return on their money. So very little money to repair and maintain things (not to mention all those permits, environmental studies etc to do any repair, upgrading etc) and the infrastructure just gets older and worse. More problems.
So the power companies are now turning off the power in areas so there can't be sparks - and 100,000's of people are without electricity. Including those with electrical medical equipment. If someone wants a generator for blackouts, you guessed it, in most areas they need a special permit and a study to install it and store enough fuel to run it.
The rates they can charge for electricity are controlled by government. And the politicians fear that they may one day jack the taxes, fees etc up to the point that the voters will finally get tired of them and vote them out of office. Go out and get a real job!!!! And lose all that wonderful power and feeling of being better than everyone else!!!! Ahhhhhhhhhhh, NO I can't face it.
So increases in electric rates are extremely hard to get.
As to wooden houses in the forests*. In some places they are required and must "fit the environment" and you can't clear cut around the buildings to hold back fire. Stone etc would be much more expensive (plus-quarry all that stone-no, it will hurt the environment). Build of concrete made to look like stone - most couldn't afford a home then. And you would need special permits etc. CA has so many regulations and fees to build new houses that at least 1/3 of the cost of new a house/building is dictated by the government. And the regulations require power lines to those houses must blend in, so none of those 120 foot towers. Shorter mostly wooden posts in residential areas. Some have underground wire but it is more expensive and harder to modify and maintain. The power pole(phone lines also) in my back yard is 50-60 feet tall and is about average for a residential area in the city.
*A lot of that "forest" isn't really. It is tall brush (15-20 feet) of the type we call chaparral with trees in the better watered areas. A lot of that arid country brush is high oil content-it burns really well, esp the creosote bushes found mixed in or even dominating in many southern desert areas.[/quote]
I agree 100%. Forest fires are a natural regeneration of the forest. Building a wooden house in the forest is not smart. If you don't thin out the forest and make fire stops this is what happens. Outlaw logging to add to the problem. Residents can thank the Sierra Club and other groups.
I feel very sorry for what is happening to our US friends but I cannot understand how the authorities allow houses built of wood are erected in a forest which regularly has these awful forest fires.
Why are the Electric Power companies permitted to erect power lines at such a low level so that sparks ignite the trees?
Here in the UK power lines are suspended from pylons which are 50 meters high and sparking is very unusual, in the US it seems the power supplies are of very poor quality if sparking is a regular occurrence, the power companies obviously know this is a problem so they shut the power off.[/quote
A large part of the problem in California is the State government and environmental laws.
The environmentalists got cutting brush and trees made very hard to get permits for to the point most just say "forget about it". So the dead leaves, needles etc build up, dry in our long hot summers and can burn like gasoline(petrol) if a fire starts. Every little fire started by lightening or other causes is put out as soon as possible so most of that "under burden" builds up for years or decades. In the real natural way those small fires burn fast and not very hot clearing out the under burden without killing the mature trees and the ash acts as fertilizer. But protect it from fire and don't allow it to be cleaned up and then you get a hot dry spell with strong winds and a fire almost explodes, two or three big ones and the fire fighters are too thin on the ground to fight them very well - remember they still need to cover the towns and cities. So they use trained teams of prisoners from minimum security prisons, National Guard soldiers and teams from other states, if they don't have fires of their own. Some of the Indian tribes train teams on their reservations and travel where needed. Those teams and the prisoners often get cheered by residents as heroes (they are, lots of stories of them risking their lives to help people).
The power companies were urged/required to build wind farms and solar farms for "renewable" energy - then they need transmission lines to get that power some where. The long distance towers are 100-120 feet tall with the lowest power lines at 60-70 feet. Bury the lines in pipes, NO, too much damage to the environment/land. Of course those buried lines last a lot longer, no wear and tear from wind, rain etc and even if they spark, no fire under ground inside a pipe.
Then the power companies were required to give people rebates etc for: electric cars, charging stations for same, home solar installation, new lower power using appliances etc etc etc.
And the stock/bond holders would rebel and vote everyone out if they don't get a return on their money. So very little money to repair and maintain things (not to mention all those permits, environmental studies etc to do any repair, upgrading etc) and the infrastructure just gets older and worse. More problems.
So the power companies are now turning off the power in areas so there can't be sparks - and 100,000's of people are without electricity. Including those with electrical medical equipment. If someone wants a generator for blackouts, you guessed it, in most areas they need a special permit and a study to install it and store enough fuel to run it.
The rates they can charge for electricity are controlled by government. And the politicians fear that they may one day jack the taxes, fees etc up to the point that the voters will finally get tired of them and vote them out of office. Go out and get a real job!!!! And lose all that wonderful power and feeling of being better than everyone else!!!! Ahhhhhhhhhhh, NO I can't face it.
So increases in electric rates are extremely hard to get.
As to wooden houses in the forests*. In some places they are required and must "fit the environment" and you can't clear cut around the buildings to hold back fire. Stone etc would be much more expensive (plus-quarry all that stone-no, it will hurt the environment). Build of concrete made to look like stone - most couldn't afford a home then. And you would need special permits etc. CA has so many regulations and fees to build new houses that at least 1/3 of the cost of new a house/building is dictated by the government. And the regulations require power lines to those houses must blend in, so none of those 120 foot towers. Shorter mostly wooden posts in residential areas. Some have underground wire but it is more expensive and harder to modify and maintain. The power pole(phone lines also) in my back yard is 50-60 feet tall and is about average for a residential area in the city.
*A lot of that "forest" isn't really. It is tall brush (15-20 feet) of the type we call chaparral with trees in the better watered areas. A lot of that arid country brush is high oil content-it burns really well, esp the creosote bushes found mixed in or even dominating in many southern desert areas.[/quote]
I agree 100%. Forest fires are a natural regeneration of the forest. Building a wooden house in the forest is not smart. If you don't thin out the forest and make fire stops this is what happens. Outlaw logging to add to the problem. Residents can thank the Sierra Club and other groups.
Oct 30, 2019 07:08:22 #
[quote=robertjerl][quote=uhaas2009]Hurricanes, tomatoes, floods, fire is here a common problem......[/quote
Could you mean tornados?
[/quote]
Obviously you've never seen a California tomato.
Could you mean tornados?
[/quote]Obviously you've never seen a California tomato.
Oct 30, 2019 08:35:57 #
Environmentalists wanted the forests left alone for nature to take it's course, nature did!
Oct 30, 2019 09:24:29 #
gvarner
Loc: Central Oregon Coast
These aren’t the typical forest fire. They’re brush fires in scrub that’s tinder dry. The power grid is ancient and we are hard pressed to put money into maintenance or upgrading to meet increasing demand. And then the winds come and we’re off to the races. Things will settle down when all that fuel has been burned through.
Oct 30, 2019 09:41:53 #
jerryc41 wrote:
Yes, the power liens are old and not very well mai... (show quote)
I feel/sense your frustration. For a long time now, I have been “incredulous” at the fact that peoples didn’t seem to be bothered by our CIRCUMSTANCES here in the greatest country on earth. I felt that folks should really be pissed-off and ready to raise cane, or at least be angry enough to complain about the crap that is “EVERY-DAY-NOW.. our politicians are BELOW third world nation caliber (both sides) our businesses are given us the bidness. And our education system is DUMB....other then that NOTHING SEEMS TO BE ALRIGHT!! Now,people are starting to complain. WHERE in hell have they been hiding?? RJM
Oct 30, 2019 10:20:43 #
Instead of looking for blame, why not look for solutions to the Annual Problem. Why not look at the past geographical history of where the fires have been in the past.
Take a look at the Powerline towers as a possible source to add water spraying pipes to those Towers as a deterrent to the problem before it starts. Why not put built in sprinkler systems in those areas that are most effected to create Fire Beaks.
If California were to bite the Budget Bullet and spend the money that could be saved in not having to the fires over the next ten years, perhaps asking the Insurance companies to contribute to this Fire Fund and save them some claim money could help. Start changing the zoning Laws, the building codes and in the long term that will help save People, Homes and Money.
For common sense= Don
Take a look at the Powerline towers as a possible source to add water spraying pipes to those Towers as a deterrent to the problem before it starts. Why not put built in sprinkler systems in those areas that are most effected to create Fire Beaks.
If California were to bite the Budget Bullet and spend the money that could be saved in not having to the fires over the next ten years, perhaps asking the Insurance companies to contribute to this Fire Fund and save them some claim money could help. Start changing the zoning Laws, the building codes and in the long term that will help save People, Homes and Money.
For common sense= Don
Oct 30, 2019 10:47:58 #
[quote=johneccles]Once again California is experiencing terrible forest fires destroying homes, farms and businesses leaving behind a trail of damage affecting 1000's of residents
"johneccles" you only need to read your 1st sentence. California's infrastructure is archaic and doesn't represent the country. I have lived in seven states and have never seen "sparking" from transformers, nor have I read of any homes (other than in California) that have burned because of "sparking).
How is your Brexit coming along?
"johneccles" you only need to read your 1st sentence. California's infrastructure is archaic and doesn't represent the country. I have lived in seven states and have never seen "sparking" from transformers, nor have I read of any homes (other than in California) that have burned because of "sparking).
How is your Brexit coming along?
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