User ID

Same as for auto shutter or for auto
aperture: None. Auto is auto. There
can be some aesthetic differences in
pictures depending upon which of the
three variables is automated, but the
exposure will be the same. You can
mess around and see it for yourself,
including the aesthetic differences.

One may hear some concerns about
"creativity" .... but I never hear that
from users who are actually creative,
only from the pretenders.

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

I'm am not protesting anything. I'm correcting your errors. By originally cited quote I assume you mean: "You're arguing about specific conditions that you yourself stated in your original post and substituting new statements. In manual mode, for some popular and current cameras, if you are set to auto-iso, EC changes the ISO. I never stated or implied that the aperture or shutter speed would change. Period. Done."

"You're arguing about specific conditions that you yourself stated in your original post and substituting new statements." I have in no way altered the substance of my original statement: With the camera in M+AutoISO+EC, adjusting the EC value will not change the exposure. In further posts attempting to help you understand all I did was expand the term "exposure" into its two camera controls shutter speed and aperture. My original statement remains correct. Your objection is wrong.

"In manual mode, for some popular and current cameras, if you are set to auto-iso, EC changes the ISO." No argument -- so what? I never said it didn't. I said in manual mode + auto ISO EC will not change exposure. You said I was wrong. I am not wrong. Do you think that changing ISO in Manual mode changes exposure? I think that's your problem. It doesn't.

"I never stated or implied that the aperture or shutter speed would change. Period. Done." Yes you did in this post: https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-615055-5.html#10602694 You said: "EC adjustment in auto-iso mode does in fact change the exposure in some cameras." You used the term "exposure" in that sentence and in the context of this thread that implies either shutter speed or aperture. With a camera in Manual mode there are only two camera controls that change exposure; 1. shutter speed and 2. aperture. You therefore implied one or the other or both would change. You are wrong.

Joe

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

That's not really true. The camera's meter is pretty darn consistent when taking readings. The thing that the meter can't do is evaluate the scene to determine if the standard exposure is correct for that scene. Most of the time it works pretty well. And really I wonder how many of the blowhards here that think they're superior because they shoot manual are actually going out and taking incident meter readings with a handheld meter. I'm guessing most are using that same meter that the camera uses, the one built in.
The thing the meter can't do is decide if a scene needs an adjustment to the metered exposure to best capture the scene. That comes with experience. And if you understand what you're doing and paying attention then you can have just as much control when shooting in A or S, or in manual with auto ISO. I mostly shoot aperture priority, but I pay attention to what the shutter speed is and if it gets out of the range I'm happy with I can change the aperture or ISO to keep it where I'd like. As long as I'm controlling two of the three settings I'm also controlling the third. If I'm shooting manual with auto ISO I control the ISO by adjusting the aperture or shutter speed. Oh, and if I decide the scene needs more or less exposure than the standard determined by the meter? That's what EC is for. Cameras have come along way since my old Fuji 35mm with the match needle. I like to take advantage of the tools they've given us.

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

oops...forgot to quote

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

You're really splitting hairs. True, changing the ISO technically doesn't change the exposure in that it doesn't affect the amount of light you're capturing, but it does change the baseline that will effect the capture of that data by the sensor.

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

Two completely different things. Shooting RAW does give you more leeway to make adjustments in PP, but it's really not a good alternative to getting the exposure right.

rond-photography Loc: Connecticut

The main drawback will be when you forget to reset to a fixed ISO when you are using a tripod in low light to get a nice landscape. The camera will pick the highest ISO and introduce noise that you don't want. It will also screw you up when using flash (once again choosing a high ISO because light is low).

I have made both mistakes - more than once! I try to remember to reset my camera to my preferred settings when done with a shoot, but sometimes I don't and that is when it bites me!

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

And the things where auto ISO is most useful are when things are happening fast and bracketing is problematic.

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

It depends on if you have a bracketing mode or not. Of course if I was manually bracketing a scene I would do it by changing the EC.

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

The camera never makes decisions for me, but I do appreciate its assistance.

Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina

In my view if there is NO light there is NO exposure. If there is any light then there are many combinations of the light, shutter speed and aperture that will result in the same exposure, the amount of light hitting the sensor. The sensor has a baseline sensitivity which is usually expressed as base ISO. Increasing this base ISO is post exposure amplification of the signal. Your sun bathing analogy really doesn’t relate to the issue in my view. But I appreciate your thoughts...

SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA

That's assuming that the entire scene is balanced. Many times I want to open up shadows or back off hi-lights. If my initial exposure is three stops off it gives me a lot less leeway to make other adjustments

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

The sensor response to exposure is not altered by ISO. Depending on how the specific camera implements ISO a change in ISO can result in ISO clipping and variations in read noise (ISO implemented via analog gain suppresses read noise), but this is not a given, it's implementation specific.

It may seem like splitting hairs but maintaining a good grasp of cause and effect can matter. For example a whole lot of folks believe that ISO causes noise in their photos when it fact it doesn't. They have cause and effect confused because they were exposed to a model that associated ISO with noise so directly that they assumed a causal relationship. ISO either doesn't alter noise or in fact it suppresses noise. I find it helpful to understand that and the first step is to understand exposure.

Joe