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Indoor sports photography
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Oct 18, 2019 08:47:37   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
Jfholly wrote:
Any advice / settings for indoor sports. Using a 24mp (non full frame )camera and Sigma 18-250 f3.5 lens.
Most photos are to dark regardless of settings. I-phone 6 plus seems to do a better job.
Thanks in advance. Jim H


Your lens is your major handicap. At the 250mm is 6.3. Indoors with a 6.3 lens is a lot like trying to mix concrete after it drys, neither works out well.
I would use a ISO of 25000 minimum. But, then you would get a lot of noise. I would up your ISO until you get a shutter speed of 1/1,000 sec. Use shutter priority. I would do this at 250mm so that if you zoom back to a shorter focal length you would be shooting faster than 1/1000 sec. But a 250 mm you would still have a 1,000 sec. shutter speed.
Indoor sports with that lens is not going to end well. It was not designed for what you are using it for. A 70-200 2.8 lens would be much better. Used lenses of this kind are available from Ebay and other places. I always get mint condition in the box.
Good luck and keep on shooting until the end.

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Oct 18, 2019 09:13:16   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
billnikon wrote:
Your lens is your major handicap. At the 250mm is 6.3. Indoors with a 6.3 lens is a lot like trying to mix concrete after it drys, neither works out well.
I would use a ISO of 25000 minimum. But, then you would get a lot of noise. I would up your ISO until you get a shutter speed of 1/1,000 sec. Use shutter priority. I would do this at 250mm so that if you zoom back to a shorter focal length you would be shooting faster than 1/1000 sec. But a 250 mm you would still have a 1,000 sec. shutter speed.
Indoor sports with that lens is not going to end well. It was not designed for what you are using it for. A 70-200 2.8 lens would be much better. Used lenses of this kind are available from Ebay and other places. I always get mint condition in the box.
Good luck and keep on shooting until the end.
Your lens is your major handicap. At the 250mm is ... (show quote)


Yep, the 70-200 is the lens of choice and super useful for all sorts of other shots as well. I have also used a 135 f2L, occasionally with a 1.4x matched extender in my pocket if I needed 200 @f2.8. Not as versatile, but faster, sharper and a LOT lighter after a long day of holding it.

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Oct 18, 2019 09:46:05   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
Commit to high ISO and some grain. Shoot in burst mode to capture action. Try to keep your zoom short enough to use the 3.5. With a 1/200th shutter speed, you can still get some good action shots if you try to catch motion at its peak stop, like on a jump. This is where burst mode helps. Those are my thoughts. I never did all of that for my grandkids' games but now I know better.

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Oct 18, 2019 10:54:41   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
Jfholly wrote:
Any advice / settings for indoor sports. Using a 24mp (non full frame )camera and Sigma 18-250 f3.5 lens.
Most photos are to dark regardless of settings. I-phone 6 plus seems to do a better job.
Thanks in advance. Jim H


What camera are you using?

The reason I ask is because the lighting in many indoor sports venue is tricky. It actually cycles on and off rapidly, the way fluorescent lighting does. This cycle is so fast (60 hz) our eyes don't see it, but our cameras sure do when we're using shutter speeds fast enough to stop sports action! It causes a high percentage of under-exposed images and, at the same time, messes with color rendition. Traditionally when shooting sports under these types of lights, I'd expect around 50% of images to be under-exposed.... maybe 25% of them so bad as to be unusable. Plus with digital it means a lot of color correction in post-processing, even if you use a Custom White Balance (recommended). In the past the only solution was to shoot lots and lots of extra shots, knowing that a lot of them would be bad and there was nothing you could do about it! (Note: One solution is to use a slow shutter speed... but that doesn't work for sports photography.)

A great solution now is a feature called "Anti-Flicker", which most recent Canon cameras have. When this is enabled, Anti-Flicker detects the cycling of the light and times shutter releases to coincide with peak output. IT WORKS! Really well, in fact.

You'd think this might make for a noticeable lag and cause problems timing your shots. But it almost never does.... The reason being that shutters speeds for sports are typically upwards of 1/250, fast enough and such a small fraction of a second that you only very rarely ever notice Anti-Flicker working. Maybe one out of every hundred I might notice a delayed shot, possibly due to Anti-Flicker (also could be a delay due to focus or metering). I'd much rather have that though, than around half of my shots under-exposed!

The difference is that without Anti-Flicker I would see under-exposure in roughly half the shots taken under certain types of lighting. Canon introduced it on 7D Mark II and I've used it extensively. It almost completely eliminated under-exposed (and poor color rendition) images!

Most Canon DSLRs and mirrorless 2015 or later have Anti-Flicker, except for the more entry-level models (T7 and T6 don't have it. I don't think T6i or T6s had it either. 400D/T100 probably doesn't, either.)

Nikon has a similar "Flicker-Free" feature on at least two models: D500 and D850.

I don't know about other camera manufacturers. They may or may not have similar.

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Oct 18, 2019 11:03:39   #
CamB Loc: Juneau, Alaska
 
billnikon wrote:
Your lens is your major handicap. At the 250mm is 6.3. Indoors with a 6.3 lens is a lot like trying to mix concrete after it drys, neither works out well.
I would use a ISO of 25000 minimum. But, then you would get a lot of noise. I would up your ISO until you get a shutter speed of 1/1,000 sec. Use shutter priority. I would do this at 250mm so that if you zoom back to a shorter focal length you would be shooting faster than 1/1000 sec. But a 250 mm you would still have a 1,000 sec. shutter speed.
Indoor sports with that lens is not going to end well. It was not designed for what you are using it for. A 70-200 2.8 lens would be much better. Used lenses of this kind are available from Ebay and other places. I always get mint condition in the box.
Good luck and keep on shooting until the end.
Your lens is your major handicap. At the 250mm is ... (show quote)

1000 of a second in a gym? I don’t think so. Maybe 250 in the bright spots and shoot lots and hope for some.
...Cam

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Oct 18, 2019 12:24:46   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
I agree with other response, that it will be challenging to find "enough light" to work with an f/3.5-6.3 lens.

No one has mentioned another major factor shooting sports... Autofocus performance. For sports you need an AF system that acquires focus quickly and does a good job tracking movement. It's a combination of the camera's AF system along with the lens' max aperture and focus drive system that decide whether or not a camera and lens are truly up to the task of shooting sports indoors. Larger aperture lenses provide more light for the camera's AF array to work with. Different cameras have more or less capable AF. Ultrasonic (Sigma calls it "HSM") is the quickest type of lens focus drive.

User skill and technique are also important getting well-focused sports shots. Highest percentages of sharp shots will be gotten using a continuous focus mode (such as Canon's AI Servo or Nikon's AF-C). It's also advisable to use as few AF points as possible. This means more work for the user, keeping one or a few AF points right where they want the camera and lens to focus... Rather than just leaving it up to chance. Some cameras detect movement and focus on it... but in most sports there's a lot of movement that can distract an AF system, causing camera and lens to focus the wrong place. Temporary obstructions... such as a person moving between you and the subject, also can cause the AF system to lose focus.

Back Button Focusing is a popular technique among sports (and other) photographers. With BBF the action of starting and running AF is removed from the shutter release button and assigned to a separate button on the back. This allows the user to turn AF on and off as needed, using their thumb, and really puts them in charge of where camera and lens focus. It takes a bit of practice, but soon becomes second nature.

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Oct 18, 2019 15:07:03   #
Ednsb Loc: Santa Barbara
 
ok, a lot of questions - first what sport? is the venue HS, College or Pro? Where are you shooting from? floor or stands. The 2.8 lens is too big for floor shots unless you are shooting at the far end away from you. If stands might be too short.

you should be back button focusing or prefocusing to a spot. Autofocus should be on continuous and you should be in burst mode.

I was a college sports photography and staff photography for a volleyball magazine back when we shot b&w film and pushed it. Much easier these days. I've never shot hockey or other indoor sports but for basketball and vb you have 3 choices

1. if they have strobes (most pro and college venues due, you can contact the sports information director or such for pros and try to get a floor pass and the ability to use the strobes which means renting the appropriate device for your camera. Then you can shoot with a slower speed lens but you need to shoot at least 1/500 or faster to stop action.
2. Use your 2.8 lend. I don’t know it so is it variable aperture based on the zoomed length? If so then I would suggest renting a faster lens. Shoot burst. If on the floor try to shoot at a 45-degree angle to get openings through other players to action.
3. you can prefocus on a spot (like rim), set speed to 1/500 or faster, and shoot burst.

Good luck.

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Oct 18, 2019 18:18:42   #
mas24 Loc: Southern CA
 
Jfholly wrote:
Any advice / settings for indoor sports. Using a 24mp (non full frame )camera and Sigma 18-250 f3.5 lens.
Most photos are to dark regardless of settings. I-phone 6 plus seems to do a better job.
Thanks in advance. Jim H


Deleted.

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Oct 18, 2019 19:39:05   #
aardq
 
Lighting in ice arenas is on the white side, while gyms can be incandescent or florescent, or a combination of both. No filter in arenas, 70-200 2.8, 1/500, and ISO at 800. Only shot in one gym so I knew the lights and had the proper filter. the 70-200, 1/500, or 1/250, and ISO 800 or 1600. Gyms are harder, so shoot a lot because you'll discard a lot.

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Oct 18, 2019 19:44:35   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
aardq wrote:
...ISO 800 or 1600. Gyms are harder, so shoot a lot because you'll discard a lot.


Depends on the gym and the sport. If it’s HS gym at night, better prepare yourself for ISOs in the 6400+ region. If your camera has an anti-flicker feature, enable it.

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Oct 18, 2019 20:01:34   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
billnikon wrote:
Your lens is your major handicap. At the 250mm is 6.3. Indoors with a 6.3 lens is a lot like trying to mix concrete after it drys, neither works out well.
I would use a ISO of 25000 minimum. But, then you would get a lot of noise. I would up your ISO until you get a shutter speed of 1/1,000 sec. Use shutter priority. I would do this at 250mm so that if you zoom back to a shorter focal length you would be shooting faster than 1/1000 sec. But a 250 mm you would still have a 1,000 sec. shutter speed.
Indoor sports with that lens is not going to end well. It was not designed for what you are using it for. A 70-200 2.8 lens would be much better. Used lenses of this kind are available from Ebay and other places. I always get mint condition in the box.
Good luck and keep on shooting until the end.
Your lens is your major handicap. At the 250mm is ... (show quote)


1/1000? What in the world for? My other question is that everybody says to go with the 70-200mm f2.8 because it's a faster lens. With today's cameras being able to handle higher ISO's, and I'm not talking 25000, I'm talking 6000, why is a 2.8 needed?

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Oct 18, 2019 21:36:32   #
ronpier Loc: Poland Ohio
 
SteveR wrote:
1/1000? What in the world for? My other question is that everybody says to go with the 70-200mm f2.8 because it's a faster lens. With today's cameras being able to handle higher ISO's, and I'm not talking 25000, I'm talking 6000, why is a 2.8 needed?


Very good question Steve, with many good f4 lenses on the market and higher ISO cameras is a 2.8 needed for sports photography? Don’t know for sure. Maybe, maybe not.

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Oct 19, 2019 00:20:03   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
ronpier wrote:
Very good question Steve, with many good f4 lenses on the market and higher ISO cameras is a 2.8 needed for sports photography? Don’t know for sure. Maybe, maybe not.


Depends on where you shoot. In low light HS gyms at night and night football, you definitely need fast lenses. I’ve shot a ton of HS wrestling matches, in maybe a dozen different schools, and at 1/250-1/500 and f2.8 with a 70-200, I’m typically between ISO 5,000-10,000 with a FF. Same is true of night football games that I shoot with a 300 f2.8. College and pro venues that I have shot are typically much better lighted.

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Oct 19, 2019 01:09:40   #
ronpier Loc: Poland Ohio
 
TriX wrote:
Depends on where you shoot. In low light HS gyms at night and night football, you definitely need fast lenses. I’ve shot a ton of HS wrestling matches, in maybe a dozen different schools, and at 1/250-1/500 and f2.8 with a 70-200, I’m typically between ISO 5,000-10,000 with a FF. Same is true of night football games that I shoot with a 300 f2.8. College and pro venues that I have shot are typically much better lighted.


Thank you TriX. You definitely answered my question. Seems like an f4 just will not be bright enough in these types of venues.

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Oct 19, 2019 10:44:09   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
ronpier wrote:
Thank you TriX. You definitely answered my question. Seems like an f4 just will not be bright enough in these types of venues.


Remember, TriX said that was in low light gyms. I'm not sure what schools have low light gyms. My daughter has been able to use a Tamron 100-400 f4.5-6.3 on a D7500 using no more than ISO 6000 when taking photos of my grandson's basketball games. The gym is run by the Plano Recreation Association and has good lighting. I admit, that lens is not the best lens for the job. Too long on the low end for one thing. I bought her the camera and lens primarily with soccer in mind, and that was the end of my budget. I've given her my Nikon 50mm f1.8 and older Nikon 35-80mm which was a kit lens with my 6006, but it is a great little lens. We may try my 70-200 f2.8 and see how it works. However, I've been disappointed with my copy of that lens. At least on my D800 it was not the sharp lens I thought it would be. Maybe it needs fine tuning.

Note: I have seen the 35-80mm f4-5.6D lens for sale on e-bay for about $34.It's an excellent zoom range for shooting around the house and even as a walking lens. Here is an ad for one. This is what it looks like. There are several advertised on ebay at differerent prices. It's a full-frame lens. Don't know why the link is so long but it will take you to the lens.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nikon-Nikkor-35-80mm-F-4-5-6-D-Macro-Metal-Mount-Autofocus-Lens-52/372698789118?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item56c69434fe:g:0KgAAOSwdcNdFki2&enc=AQAEAAACQBPxNw%2BVj6nta7CKEs3N0qUmYpCseeVm0rknuHe2KbGk2I7AOYqso7iypGwCpEKRQa5DD8fpcZXUcbvYg3CuP40Qh6yED64P9f3wHk6uiL76nslYqkMxB85yceDQlSSHDuw19ceHPGRz2yqIiB33zWKxtY%2FGTH4jciCP1q99l076KfVlPkIDYGzWjRASfaJkZebPdYUC6sBUbr1gcp%2B11fEAG%2BYrat9ZVQpabcGSVo%2FmhRPi4ytn5h5xQM1pd7%2BTtodvaR5o9RIzW7oT6xtnWQIpJ4WAXz0x%2FQfBu5wjxdwrxn5ojng2PDA979%2Fn0XOW4tyQfOBDH7VRUxNyXWNVdsQN5cs%2FDTSClXBHgW1Nm5hncGsMVtwZC5KNSBIBDJMfe%2BNACaneEk5ZJD8KjzVfOmmc%2FxSAjsXHbmBeu%2FO%2BAmksk2V%2FAMpT5MYseXL0JmepF2Ny197Y6alucN6Cmgh7bRN1%2B%2FAj5PQ%2BBpMJP06yuDPjXIqCzQBLZHV7AfPFNjIRUmLSfhifrfX%2BTezZvW9UaFufCoQ8FXByoW6TU3bXcbYejNrZ9Oi2AGQAPtXAt%2BvQQSoRmR9pvTnC8FV1t%2FbTg%2FoDav7fSCJZVMgKIBxyUogDsDBBH3fX8vyRdYudb3kDboOFYW5wDf2tSnuMN7uQVSkMYI%2FqU%2B0i0ZCW3wsNemioA3rVUF5vuYXQiAdPzjmtrMgiphwbb32WeD6tgC0ldBAHB8RHqoo%2B136zhgdgUpQ2QYl95bb7qAmtxmQ74JvmFQ%3D%3D&checksum=372698789118c16d1e9a547c495bacfc21cf6cdd6f45&enc=AQAEAAACQBPxNw%2BVj6nta7CKEs3N0qUmYpCseeVm0rknuHe2KbGk2I7AOYqso7iypGwCpEKRQa5DD8fpcZXUcbvYg3CuP40Qh6yED64P9f3wHk6uiL76nslYqkMxB85yceDQlSSHDuw19ceHPGRz2yqIiB33zWKxtY%2FGTH4jciCP1q99l076KfVlPkIDYGzWjRASfaJkZebPdYUC6sBUbr1gcp%2B11fEAG%2BYrat9ZVQpabcGSVo%2FmhRPi4ytn5h5xQM1pd7%2BTtodvaR5o9RIzW7oT6xtnWQIpJ4WAXz0x%2FQfBu5wjxdwrxn5ojng2PDA979%2Fn0XOW4tyQfOBDH7VRUxNyXWNVdsQN5cs%2FDTSClXBHgW1Nm5hncGsMVtwZC5KNSBIBDJMfe%2BNACaneEk5ZJD8KjzVfOmmc%2FxSAjsXHbmBeu%2FO%2BAmksk2V%2FAMpT5MYseXL0JmepF2Ny197Y6alucN6Cmgh7bRN1%2B%2FAj5PQ%2BBpMJP06yuDPjXIqCzQBLZHV7AfPFNjIRUmLSfhifrfX%2BTezZvW9UaFufCoQ8FXByoW6TU3bXcbYejNrZ9Oi2AGQAPtXAt%2BvQQSoRmR9pvTnC8FV1t%2FbTg%2FoDav7fSCJZVMgKIBxyUogDsDBBH3fX8vyRdYudb3kDboOFYW5wDf2tSnuMN7uQVSkMYI%2FqU%2B0i0ZCW3wsNemioA3rVUF5vuYXQiAdPzjmtrMgiphwbb32WeD6tgC0ldBAHB8RHqoo%2B136zhgdgUpQ2QYl95bb7qAmtxmQ74JvmFQ%3D%3D&checksum=372698789118c16d1e9a547c495bacfc21cf6cdd6f45

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