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Improving my current tripod - Bogen 3021
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Oct 1, 2019 13:34:04   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
BBurns wrote:
There is much validity in what is being stated here. Those of us old film guys with tried & true hardware know what we can trust.
I bought and have had a 3051 since 1982, ~$250 then as I remember. Yes, it is a beast and yes, it is heavy. Not really intended for a lot of field use.
I did because I was doing macro stuff in botanical gardens and the like. I have shot a C5 Celestron with a 2X on it. That's the equivalent of 2500mm.

There are old secrets about tripod use that do not seem to be mentioned very often anymore.
1. Never extend the smallest leg sections unless absolutely needed.
2. Never extend the center column more than is needed, if at all.
3. Do not use the rubber feet outdoors.
4. Always make sure everything is locked down tight.

These are all meant to help increase stability.

Each person must work with what they have to figure out what works best with their particular gear.

Most of us wound up buying at least 3 tripods before we figured it out.

I always remember George Lepp saying, "There is No Such Thing As Too Much Tripod"
There is much validity in what is being stated her... (show quote)


I updated that quote to read "no one ever complained about buying too much tripod".

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Oct 1, 2019 14:19:42   #
BBurns Loc: South Bay, California
 
Gene51 wrote:
I updated that quote to read "no one ever complained about buying too much tripod".
Very good and so true.

Here is a lousy shot someone took and gave me when I was shooting an annular eclipse back in '92.
Tripod is a 3051 with a 24" 'T' bar mounted on the top of the column.
The near end of the bar is anchored to the fence railing with a Bogen Magic Arm.
The opposite end of the bar is anchored to the not visible 3rd leg with a second Magic Arm.

The bar had 3 camera systems mounted. Nearest is my C5 Celestron with a full up Canon New F-1/motor.
Just behind it is a 300mmL on another full up Canon New F-1/motor.
Behind that which you can just barely see is the 3rd camera, a Pentax 6x7 with a 135mm.

Fortunately it did not move because that was all I had with me!

PV Lighthouse-Jan4-1992
PV Lighthouse-Jan4-1992...

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Oct 1, 2019 14:39:29   #
DaveyDitzer Loc: Western PA
 
Gene51 wrote:
That support, if you could trust it, would only work to help with a lens that has an inadequate collar/foot assembly, or none at all. It won't make a tripod more stable.


Thank you. Unfortunately the Nikon support that comes with the 200-500 f5.6 is just barely adequate. That coupled with the single screw mounting bolt and a 2" x 2.5" mounting platform seems insecure. The Nikon has only one location for the ring of the collar and it is too far back from the COG even with the body attached.

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Oct 1, 2019 16:14:20   #
carl hervol Loc: jacksonville florida
 
drill it out and retread it to 3/18 x18

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Oct 1, 2019 17:39:46   #
Winslowe
 
Gene51 wrote:
You can't. But you can get a sense of how vibration-resistant a tripod is. Clearly, if you tap harder it will take longer, but after you've tapped the camera 10X you'll be able to determine which one is more stable. I suppose if you really needed to be precise, you could screw a lens plate to a couple of 2x4s similar in length to the lens and camera, that are glued/screwed together and attach them to the tripod head. Then mount a laser pointer to the end of the 2x4 stack, and set it up so that it is pointed at a target about 25 ft away - you could use an archery target. Set up a weight that will fall onto the 2x4 stack. Using a second camera in slow motion, you could focus it at the target, drop the weight and watch and actually measure the vibration as the laser point moves off center and returns. But this is not about deciding whether or not a Gitzo Series 5 is more /less stable than a RRS Series 4. But if you want to see if it pays to get a really solid platform, then you will likely see the difference between something like a 3021 and a midrange priced tripod ($600 or so).
You can't. But you can get a sense of how vibratio... (show quote)

I'd rather see the effect of camera vibration on the sensor..

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Oct 1, 2019 17:43:03   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
DaveyDitzer wrote:
Thank you. Unfortunately the Nikon support that comes with the 200-500 f5.6 is just barely adequate. That coupled with the single screw mounting bolt and a 2" x 2.5" mounting platform seems insecure. The Nikon has only one location for the ring of the collar and it is too far back from the COG even with the body attached.


yes, NONE of the big zoom collars are any GOOD ! And, Nikon is noted for their bad collars. That is why they make the bracket ! If you want, you can buy the RRS version on their website for 3X the price - but it is American ! RRS thinks they are very good - and so do I !
.

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Oct 1, 2019 17:48:18   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
Gene51 wrote:
That support, would only work to help with a lens that has an inadequate collar/foot assembly,


Yes, which, as it turns out, is most if not all big zooms !
.

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Oct 1, 2019 19:30:23   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
DaveyDitzer wrote:
Thank you. Unfortunately the Nikon support that comes with the 200-500 f5.6 is just barely adequate. That coupled with the single screw mounting bolt and a 2" x 2.5" mounting platform seems insecure. The Nikon has only one location for the ring of the collar and it is too far back from the COG even with the body attached.


Totally familiar with Nikon's decision to cheap out on the tripod collars. There was a quite good 300mm F2.8 that was almost impossible to get a sharp image with when it was on a tripod the collar was so bad. The onl way you could get sharp images was using a beanbag or some other bracing. Why they treat collars and lens feet like an afterthought is beyond me, unless they own controlling interests in the manufacturers of aftermarket parts.

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Oct 1, 2019 19:31:16   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
imagemeister wrote:
Yes, which, as it turns out, is most if not all big zooms !
.


And primes - the 600mmF4 is junk as well. Swapped mine out for the Wimberley. Until I did that I thought the lens was defective.

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Oct 1, 2019 19:33:09   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Winslowe wrote:
I'd rather see the effect of camera vibration on the sensor..


To each his own. Having a record on video that you can use to measure deflection and time to settle has value, especially since the question of how to ensure the force of the tap was consistent.

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Oct 1, 2019 22:56:37   #
DaveyDitzer Loc: Western PA
 
imagemeister wrote:
yes, NONE of the big zoom collars are any GOOD ! And, Nikon is noted for their bad collars. That is why they make the bracket ! If you want, you can buy the RRS version on their website for 3X the price - but it is American ! RRS thinks they are very good - and so do I !
.


I have one in my cart on RRS. The price ($378) is 10x the Chinese copies on ebay. This is the assembly: rail, front support and bracket and rear support for the lens foot. Hope I'm going at this correctly. The video head should work well, even if cumbersome. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

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Oct 2, 2019 20:25:10   #
Photocraig
 
My first serious tripod was a 3021 with a modified Bogen head to accept Arca Swiss plates. I bought it from Kirk Enterprises. I suggest checking with the Kirk folks. They're experts and very nice to work with. Their roots are in precision machine work for Aerospace.

I added a Gitzo carbon fiber and a B-1 ball head later. Bullet proof!

Go to Kirk enterprises web site and give 'em a call. It will renew your good feeling about America's Heartland.
C

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Oct 3, 2019 21:59:45   #
DaveyDitzer Loc: Western PA
 
PP: I have examined both Kirk and RRS. The Kirk replaces the collar and adds a front "stabilizer" to attach to the bracket. RRS, while more expensive than the Kirk packages a kit with the front stabilizer, a support bracket and a base for the existing tripod collar. It's more expensive (378 vs 260), but more versatile. The Kirk is only for the specific lens (200-500 Nikon). I think I'll go with the RRS when it is again available. Thanks for all your input. You folks got me headed in the right direction (... and more GAS).

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Oct 5, 2019 16:42:26   #
topcat Loc: Alameda, CA
 
The 3021 ia a good tripod. The first tripod that I bought, and one that I still use.
You need a head with a quick-release plate. Using a tripod without that it a real pain.
You could get a Bogen head, or as I recently did, I got a Chinese version of an Arca Swiss head. There are many heads that you can get. I used a three-axis head for many years but recently moved into a ball head. The head that you use is a matter of personal preference.

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Oct 5, 2019 18:27:58   #
DaveyDitzer Loc: Western PA
 
I ended up buying the RRA combination kit which looks to be more versatile (in case I get more lens "GAS").
Thank you one and all for your help.

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