Baz Loc: Peterborough UK

It doesn't matter how you dress it up, theft is theft, and the person who carries it out is a thief. Ask permission, not only will you feel better about it, you may well get a friend.

blacks2 Loc: SF. Bay area

I think a person should ask for the permission to print. I always give the OK when asked, I even did so when asked if I allow an image to be painted by an artist.

oldtool2 Loc: South Jersey

First let me state that I am not a lawyer.

In my opinion any work shown here is technically copyrighted. Even though it is true that if someone were to print someone else’s photo, for their own use, chances of it ever being known are slim to none it isn’t right. Ask for permission, preferably by private message, and you may get permission but that would be between the photographer and you. Photos posted are for the members enjoyment or to help the poster to learn to improve their work, not for anyone who stumbles across the photo to print for their own use.

This forum has done a lot to help many photographers. Some of us have learned by examining some excellent photos shown to us by some great photographers, some by the C&C given about posted photos. I have no objection to someone downloading one of my photos, making an improvement to it, and posting it again to the same thread to show me how to improve my work. I would object to someone printing it for his or her own use without requesting permission!

The thought that there are members that would do something like this will do nothing but hurt this forum. I am sure there are many photos we would all enjoy seeing that will never get posted because of this fear! In fact, there are members that will probably stop posting photos because of this thread. I for one cannot really blame them even though I hope this does not become the case. I realize my work is far from professional in quality but because of similar posts like this I started watermarking everything I show here.

Jim D

Lucian Loc: From Wales, living in Ohio

Mavenmatt...

First off, this site is not a "crime ridden neighborhood late at night and (a poster on this site) walking away with the motor running ,driver door open with a six pack of beer in the passenger seat and music screaming steal me!!" as you put it or implied.

This is a web site where most if not all are photographers of some sort and almost all probably know right from wrong. It is foolish on your part, to compare it to what you stated above, that would be a silly comparison at the least.

This site says you are not allowed to copy etc. when you join it. Therefore you have a right to assume and expect that a person will not do that. Forget about your "Implied Consent" idea, there is no complied consent going on unless someone states that they want to please have others take and copy and manipulate their images, but I'm sure most would not expect someone to then take that image and print it out for their own use. I think you need to get a new "Lawyer Hat".

There is very good software out there that can easily take a 4x6 72dpi image and up-res it so that you can make a very descent 11x14 out of it, or even larger. So posting low res images alone will not prevent someone from getting a good copy to print out from your low res image.

No one has the right to just take anything off the web and use it, regardless of their intention. Yes millions do but that does not make it correct or lawful. Millions speed every day on every highway the world over. That does not make it right and a few get caught and punished for it.

Oh and if you did "Hide" your gold bars in the middle of your drive way then they would be just that... Hidden, Duhhh. I think you meant to say placed outside in the middle of your drive way. Because if you did in fact hide them somehow in the middle of your drive way then they would be hidden and you would not expect them to be found and then stolen from you, otherwise why would you bother hiding them?

jbslord Loc: Coventry UK

I have given plenty of people a copy of my work. One of my mates ran one of my shots through a photoshop program for me but we both know it was my work...If I give you permission to take something, then you are welcome to do whatever you like with it. But if it's really cool,send me back a copy of what you did. and thanks.

donrent Loc: Punta Gorda , Fl

[quote=Wheezer1]I agree you should ask permisssion to use other's pictures but does it fall under copyright laws if it is just posted on a public web site?
========================================Thank you.... THAT is my point exactly....

donrent Loc: Punta Gorda , Fl

[quote=Wheezer1]I agree you should ask permisssion to use other's pictures but does it fall under copyright laws if it is just posted on a public web site?
========================================Thank you.... THAT is my point exactly....

HOHIMER

If you take a picture of my personal garden, or any other item I have labored to design and build; then place it on your wall, have you stolen from me?

You have taken something that is not yours.....right?

shutterbug65 Loc: Oakville, Canada

Over and above the copyright infringement issue. Which I agree with. If you have a photo you wish to share it would only be common courtesy to ask for permission to down load it. If you are the person posting the photo make sure you don't mind having it downloaded, and wait for the compliments which the majority of photos on this forum generously receive on this forum anyway. I know I would be very pleased if someone where to print one of mine and proudly display it at home or elsewhere. Just give me the credit as being the photographer. Beauty is to be shared and seen by all, we should not hang on to it like misers. There are so many beautiful places and things in this world to photograph you will never get to see them all in your lifetime, let alone capture the perfect moment, so sharing is the only way we will all get to enjoy the bounty.

Lucian Loc: From Wales, living in Ohio

Shutterbug65...

You are correct, there are many beautiful things in this world and if it is out there in nature, it is for us all to see and enjoy. There are also many beautiful watches in the Rolex factory and many beautiful Porsches in the Porsche factory and many beautiful Rembrandts and other old masters in the art galleries too. That does not mean we have the right to just go in there and take them and hang them on our walls at home, or put the Porsches in our garages without paying for them or the Rolexes on our wrists for free.

The images posted here cost lots to acquire by the makers. They had to work hard and save the money to by the camera body, then the lenses, then take the time to learn how to use that equipment. Then they spent their time to find the image they shot and spent the money to get to the location of that shoot. They then took the time to edit and finish the image and then posted it here. You nor no one else has the right to just take that image from them for your own use, regardless of how you try to justify it.

Have a think along those lines and not just think "if it is there I should be able to steal it". I do take your point about sharing of course, but some wish to share more than others and for some it cost too much to acquire to just share it for free. I do understand that you also agree that permission should be obtained in order to get an image and print it off, but let's be open to the cost it took to get something and be open to paying back a little of that cost to the creator of an image.

MT Shooter Loc: Montana

I have a little bit of an issue with that statement Randy. As we both know you downloaded and printed one of my posted images that now hangs in your studio. With my permission of course. But am I stupid for posting it under the guidelines that I did? I hope not.
But I do feel anyone who does download and print a posted image without permission is a terrible lowlife and no more than a common thief. Images are posted here, and elsewhere to be enjoyed by all, not to be stolen or passed off as someone elses.
Just as door locks only keep out the honest people, there are thieves in all walks of life.

MainStreet Business Loc: Butler, MO

I like your answer.

I am such a crappy photographer, that I just sold my camera and now just steal the pictures I like.

It has always been my philosophy that it is alway easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

I used to pray tha God would make me an outstanding photographer. Then I figured out that God didn't work that way, Sooo.... I just steal the pictures and pray for forgiveness.

John

randymoe

OK, I will store my gold coins in the public roadway in plain sight, as obviously they are safe there!

Now I have a real world question along this line with a twist.

I have a friend whose pencil and paper artwork looks digital but it is done by hand. For several years I have shot digital copies for money, of his work. I then would supply him with full rez copies and low rez ones for web posting.

I have had to educate him on the dangers of releasing high rez images into the wild, meaning anywhere on the Internet. He has listened well.

He has entered many competitions and exhibitions using my low rez copies of his original work and sold a lot of original handmade artwork for serious money.

His daughter and he recently opened a web site and store at my urging and guidance with these artwork copies with the purpose of selling his handmade art work. Only very low rez images are posted. All shot by me and adjusted in Photoshop to look good online and be good looking at low rez.

Recently, like last week, he entered two of his digital full rez image copies in an online digital art show and auction. People will be buying the digital image not the original artwork.

Now the question arises of who owns what. Does he own the digital copies he paid me for? Do I have any lasting, beyond the workman's pay, to the copyright of the digital images?

And the big question is who, upon digital sale owns the copyright? If the buyer does, are there now two copyrights? One for the digitally sold work. One for the original artwork. Maybe one for me as photographer?

Where does it end or begin? Traditionally once a painting, for example, is sold the rights of ownership are transferred forever to each succeeding owner.

This is not a hypothetical situation.

randymoe

Just to be clear MT Shooter, I believe I did ask permission to download and print your image. Lord knows I would not want to be a thief. My momma taught me that a very early age. When I was 4, I palmed a candy bar in a store and my mother discovered this in the car and marched me back into the store to confess my crime. That lesson did stick.

MT Shooter, I have asked for your advice many times and you have freely given it. I truly appreciate your advice. I do not consider you stupid and I apologize if my inflammatory writing insulted you. I, in no way, meant to insult you or anyone here.

Max Kurz Loc: Newark, De

On a simular note;
Sarge will often place jokes and puns on this forum, some really corny, but most clever and worthy of forwarding. Do the Hehgehog rules prohibit me from sending the "page" of his musings or am I required to recopy them and send them as an original E-Mail ?
Are they considered as propriety as a photo he may post ?