sunnyfilm

I am only keeping backups of my photos, I don't connect my externals to my laptop very often. I was under the impression SSD's were better quality because parts didn't move. My externals have served my purposes well, just wish I had been more methodical in my saving pictures from the beginning.

nadelewitz Loc: Ithaca NY

I didn't know about LaCie's legendary unreliability. Fits right in with their being synonymous with Apple products. Beautiful visual design, crappy hardware.

To your other point:

Someone thinking of using RAID 1 mirroring as "backing up" should think again. I found out (luckily before I experienced any drive failure) that this is an inappropriate use of RAID.

I built a home NAS system, with three drives and RAID 1 mirroring. First time using RAID. So proud of myself. It worked very nicely.

Then one day I took one of the mirrors and connected it to another computer via USB and......the drive showed as being EMPTY! I did some panicked research and learned that a drive from a RAID array can only be read when connected to the SAME CONTROLLER it was created by. Meaning, that NAS system or another machine with the exact same RAID controller.

RAID is meant for REDUNDANCY, not duplication for separate use, meaning if one drive fails, the system keeps right on ticking. You replace the failed drive and the controller makes the replacement part of the array.

RAID mirror drives are NOT meant as independent backups from which you can retrieve data. You will be sadly disappointed in the event of a RAID drive failure.

cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA

Just as a note to the OP. Please select "Quote Reply" when replying to a post so that the rest of us know what is going on. Best of luck.

cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA

Sorry that I choose to reply from a machine with "crappy hardware" but I guess that's my choice. As far as you knowledge and recommendations for NAS and RAID, your words display your complete lack of knowledge. While you are correct that a drive which is part of a particular RAID can't be relocated, I'll trust my backups to a device that makes two exact copies and keeps those copies in synch regardless of drive failure. I suggest you learn a bit more before continuing to comment on something you really don't understand. Best of luck.

nadelewitz Loc: Ithaca NY

What? Please tell me how you think my words display a complete lack of knowledge? You did not say anything that contradicts what I said. You agreed with me.

What good as backup is an exact copy of a drive if you can't read it independently of the RAID array?

My NAS, with three drives and its operating system, Openmediavault, does USB backups and syncs the drives, triggered manually or scheduled, so the drives are synced. AND, I can take any of the drives and read them all by themselves on any computer.

Your pompous response is really offensive. I don't need your wish for luck, thank you.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Please note that NOWHERE did I suggest RAID 1 as a backup, and I never would suggest it for backup, just operational redundancy as you mention.

Now to your case. If you’re mirroring 3 drives in a NAS system, that is a waste of resources and a misunderstanding of the architecture. First, one thing that is often ignored in NAS systems is that the NAS owns the file system. That means that if you buy some company’s NAS, you buy their file system as well. There are literally dozens (if not hundreds) of consumer grade NAS devices and almost that many proprietary file systems. Since, other than the OS,nothing is more important than the file system, why would you trust your data to XYZ file system developed by a small company without the resources of Apple, Microsoft, or NetAPP to develop, test and maintain a file system. The reason you can’t read the drive, is most likely because it’s formatted with a file system other than NTFS, so your other computer can’t read it. Which begs the question: what if your NAS company goes belly up and your NAS controller dies? If your file system is not standard, how will you read the data?

In any event, 3 drives is an awkward number. You can run it as a small RAiD 5 redundanncy group, but there is a big parity overhead (33%). (and none of the drives contains all the data, so you can’t restore from it, and there are other “gotchas”. If it were mine, I would add a 4th drive and run it as a RAID 5 (25% parity overhead), or better yet, as a RAiD 1+0 (sometimes referred to as RAID 10) - the classic configuration of DBAs. OR, you could directly attach all the drives to a Windows (or Linux) server, use the built-in RAID capability of the NTFS file system (which is very robust) and simply connect to the server via the network or esport as NAS. Again, it’s a file system issue, and there are not that many small company file systems I would trust with my data.

Cheers

nadelewitz Loc: Ithaca NY

Okay now. You are assuming and misunderstanding. You are talking like I have RAID. My NAS does not have a RAID array, for the reason I explained. You missed that entirely. Step-by-step:
1. It is not a RAID setup.

2. It is a computer running the "Openmediavault" operating system. It has one shared data drive.

3. OMV is Linux-based. For this reason, it prefers the shared drive to be formatted as a Linux ext4 file system. Nothing proprietary there. This drive could be taken out and read on any Linux machine.

4. The extra USB drives connected to the computer can be any file system Linux can read and write to. Mine are NTFS, so they can be taken out and read/written-to by any computer....Linux, Windows, Mac, etc.

5. Where is there a "waste of resources"? I have three NTFS drives connected to the NAS as my backup drives. So I have three readable, writable backups. How is that "wasteful" or "awkward"? I could have as few or as many as I think I want to have.

I don't get your idea. There is NOTHING proprietary about any of the drive file formats. There is no "redundancy" as in the sense of a R(edundant)AID array. There is just a shared drive and BACKUP drives. If you want to use the word "redundant" to mean copies, okay.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

I guess you need to to reread your last post. YOU are the one who described your system as a: “home built NAS system with three drives and RAID 1 mirroring”

Then you said that you learned that the only thing that could read your mirrored drive was “THE SAME CONTROLLER” (your caps). Now if the drive is formatted with a standard file system, such as NTFS, then it can be read by ANY system that can read NTFS, so you have a file system issue (unless the drive or disc controlle4 is bad).

The fact that you are running “Openmediavault OS” is exactly my point. If you choose to run a small company 3rd party OS/FS, then you get exactly what you deserve - sorry but true. Operating systems and file systems are complex to develop debug, maintain and support, and a small independent company just does not have the resources to do that. The fact that it is “Linux-based” doesn’t address that issue - why not just one of the well known distributions of Linux?

You say that the USB drives connected to your system are NTFS based and can be read by any computer. If so, what was the point of your previous post discussing your “empty drive” that could only be read by a controller of the same make? If everything is NTFS and working just fine, what was your previous problem with your mirrored drive?

As to your idea that there is no “redundancy”, what do you think RAID stands for? REDUNDANT Array of Independent disks.

Finally, as to my comment about inefficient use of disk space, if you’re using 3 drives for backup (and it doesn’t work), then yes, you need to understand backup, DR and RAID architecture better so that you create a system that DOES work and make efficient use of disk space.

Remember, you started this pointed discussion by disagreeing with my initial recommendation of mirrored drives, which you mistakenly assumed I meant for backup.

nadelewitz Loc: Ithaca NY

Your first sentence is mistaken, so I didn't bother reading the rest.

I said I did RAID mirroring when first building my NAS, then learned it was not a good "backup" method.
I THEN changed the NAS to a shared drive with three USB backup drives.

I now understand RAID usage just fine, thank you.

I have nothing else to say to you. Don't bother replying again. I won't be here.

You're a jerk.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

For those still online, mirroring is a perfectly good way to protect and backup your data WHEN PROPERLY IMPLEMENTED. In fact, as data sets grow and even incremental backups cannot fit within a given backup window, more and more enterprises are mirroring to a seperate system or another site. BUT you must understand its limitations, and it must not be your only copy of your data - you need a 3rd off-site copy for disaster recovery. Two mirrored drives (RAID 1) are much more reliable than a single drive, but it will not protect you from certain types of failures, such as corruption of the primary file system which propagates to the mirror.

GrandmaG Loc: Flat Rock, MI

I prefer Samsung over WD.

PercussiveMaintenance

If you are concerned with redundancy in protecting you photos, but still want decent speed look into Drobo 5N. Not cheap, but excellent redundancy (can handle single or dual drive failure) and has some solid state storage to speed up access.

gene 58

why not talk to b&h the profesionals get peace of mind.

GrandmaG Loc: Flat Rock, MI

I have been following this thread and, in fact, re-read the last 2 pages twice. It sounds like I am mistaken in thinking a RAID system that mirrors my data is NOT a backup system BECAUSE it cannot be read outside the source that created it.

I actually have two RAID systems. One is by G-Tech and the other is a CRU Tough Tech Duo (that I have a third drive for an off-site backup). I do have my photos on other external drives that are either at my kids homes, in the bank safe deposit box or in my safe at home (but, of course, these will not include the most current photos that are on my RAID systems).

As an extra precaution, I use BackBlaze, AND have my favorite pictures on either Shutterfly or SmugMug AND in Lightroom Mobile.

My concern now is that my mirrored system is flawed. I have Apple computers. I am open to suggestions for a better system. Help!

cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA

Your mirrored system is NOT flawed, at least IMHO. There WAS quite a bit of mis-information stated above. Best of luck.