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For all. Why no manuals
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May 28, 2019 17:30:39   #
steve1oshea Loc: Reading, England
 
latebloomer wrote:
I just purchased a new Olympus E-M1-II. As my Pen F it had no include a full manual with it. My Nikons do.

Why can't a manufacture produce an included manual with such an expensive product? I know there manuals are not perfect; yet, they are very useful and can't cost that much to produce. Are the makers just that greedy and selfish? I find it absurd.


Hi Terry
I know it's a little frustrating but I can assure you that it is a fantastic camera. There are many tutorials on Olympus website and of coarse youtube. I have had mine for some time and am still learning new things that the camera can do. Have fun with it.

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May 28, 2019 17:47:16   #
no12mo
 
My Canon A series film cameras have relatively small manuals. The Canon T90, surely a more complex camera, comes with one also and it's about the same size. My Nikon D7000 comes with a paper manual about the same size. My Nikon D500? I don't even remember if I have one. Why? See below. Go for after market books on "how do."

That said, if you want a definitive "how to" instruction on how to operate your camera look for something in PDF format that may be searchable OR look for some very comprehensive BOOKS on how to operate your particular camera. My only complaint about the new approach is the very stiff binder where the book will not lay flat while you are fiddling with your camera while reading the "how to" section of that book.

Take a deep breath and let it out sloooowwly and go find an after market book on your camera. They are written by authors who KNOW the camera and make it their business to tell you "how to."

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May 28, 2019 17:57:29   #
no12mo
 
cowboydid2 wrote:
I have 10 Nikons, ranging from a D60 up to a D750, all used. Digital is the ONLY way I got manuals for them.


I'm guessing the cameras you mentioned in your collection were not purchased new by you. I did a quick check on eBay and yes, for example, there is a paper "genuine" paper manual for your D750.

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May 28, 2019 18:20:42   #
Jeannie88
 
I know what you mean. A bit over 2 years ago , I switched to Olympus from Nikon and bought the Em1M2, and was shocked there was no manual. I had to wait about a year and a half in order to get a book. That's how long it took to have it published. In the mean time, I ordered the book for the EM1, which I also bought, But found that there is no book in English that is any good for the Pen F.

I have down loaded all manuals to both my computer and my iPhone. Being new to Olympus, I was really lost. I went and printed out many pages from the EM1M2 that I had bought. So I now own 3 Olympus cameras, Love them, But still am annoyed that they came without manuals.

Nikon always included manuals with every camera I purchased, and according to my friend they still do.

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May 28, 2019 18:30:24   #
stanikon Loc: Deep in the Heart of Texas
 
BebuLamar wrote:
I fact the cost to produce the pdf manual is almost zero. Sure it costs a lot to write it but since it cost the same to write either version and generally the electronic version is written first before sending it to the printer. So there is no additional cost for the PDF.


Given that the pdf manual is expensive to write, is that not a major part of the cost to produce it? I would think so, since it is impossible to produce the manual without writing it first. Same goes for the paper manual. The cost to write it may be exactly the same but it is nevertheless a cost that must be recovered and is part of the per-copy cost of the manuals. In my illustration the cost is assumed to be spread out over the copies that are produced. Since there is no paper or printing cost, the pdf version is bound to be much cheaper than the paper version, given that the cost to write it is the same. The part that is almost zero for the pdf version is ONLY the distribution cost. If the hard cost to produce the paper version (paper, printing, shipping weight) is eliminated but the total cost of the camera is the same, guess what happens to the profit margin?

Personally I prefer the paper version. Any time I purchase something and the manual is only online, I download and save it, but then I also print it. I can print two-sided pages so the paper used is ½ the number of pages. I prefer that because I found that writing notes to myself on the computer monitor gets pretty messy pretty fast.

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May 28, 2019 18:30:33   #
GeorgeFenwick
 
Okay, some people like paper manuals and some people don’t. Some people who prefer computer manuals like to complain that those who like paper manuals are deficient in various ways. Got it, thanks. I don’t like the on-line life and minimize my time on computers, and I also rarely carry a phone. Call people like me what you like. Those who don’t like to go on-line for everything have heard from you: we must deal with this new world. Since there is no option here, okay. Let’s move on.

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May 28, 2019 18:32:54   #
Dannj
 
My experience with manuals, be they print or digital, that come with cameras is that they are designed to tell you “how to” operate the various buttons and dials on the camera not to tell you “why” you should use them. A good photographic technique guide is an essential, additional tool for most people.

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May 28, 2019 18:38:28   #
stanikon Loc: Deep in the Heart of Texas
 
Dannj wrote:
My experience with manuals, be they print or digital, that come with cameras is that they are designed to tell you “how to” operate the various buttons and dials on the camera not to tell you “why” you should use them. A good photographic technique guide is an essential, additional tool for most people.


I agree 100%. The manual for my D90 tells me the function of every button and control but says nothing about the "why" of them. I bought "Nikon D90 for Dummies" and also David Busch's book about it. They have proved to be invaluable resources. The actual manual that came with the camera is rendered nearly useless by those two books.

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May 28, 2019 18:41:18   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
stanikon wrote:
Given that the pdf manual is expensive to write, is that not a major part of the cost to produce it? I would think so, since it is impossible to produce the manual without writing it first. Same goes for the paper manual. The cost to write it may be exactly the same but it is nevertheless a cost that must be recovered and is part of the per-copy cost of the manuals. In my illustration the cost is assumed to be spread out over the copies that are produced. Since there is no paper or printing cost, the pdf version is bound to be much cheaper than the paper version, given that the cost to write it is the same. The part that is almost zero for the pdf version is ONLY the distribution cost. If the hard cost to produce the paper version (paper, printing, shipping weight) is eliminated but the total cost of the camera is the same, guess what happens to the profit margin?

Personally I prefer the paper version. Any time I purchase something and the manual is only online, I download and save it, but then I also print it. I can print two-sided pages so the paper used is ½ the number of pages. I prefer that because I found that writing notes to myself on the computer monitor gets pretty messy pretty fast.
Given that the pdf manual is expensive to write, i... (show quote)


My GH4 came with an outdated paper manual and several thin supplements (it’s now on firmware 2.7, so many features have been added). The PDF is up to date. It’s almost exactly the same, but FAR more useful.

I write manuals. I can say that many of them start with a PDF that is then made into plates for an offset press (or sometimes they are printed electrostatically). So the PDF actually comes first. Someone simply adds the hyperlinks to make it searchable. The only significant cost beyond the PDF is printing, which is relatively expensive.

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May 28, 2019 18:57:53   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
burkphoto wrote:


Learning Rule #1 is to learn how to find and access information from primary sources.


In a high school English class we were given an assignment to write a report. The topics we were given to choose from seemed absurd, and I said so. The teacher explained that the topic wasn't the point. Learning how to find the information was the point.

That lesson has paid off many times over the years.

---

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May 28, 2019 18:58:09   #
BebuLamar
 
stanikon wrote:
Given that the pdf manual is expensive to write, is that not a major part of the cost to produce it? I would think so, since it is impossible to produce the manual without writing it first. Same goes for the paper manual. The cost to write it may be exactly the same but it is nevertheless a cost that must be recovered and is part of the per-copy cost of the manuals. In my illustration the cost is assumed to be spread out over the copies that are produced. Since there is no paper or printing cost, the pdf version is bound to be much cheaper than the paper version, given that the cost to write it is the same. The part that is almost zero for the pdf version is ONLY the distribution cost. If the hard cost to produce the paper version (paper, printing, shipping weight) is eliminated but the total cost of the camera is the same, guess what happens to the profit margin?

Personally I prefer the paper version. Any time I purchase something and the manual is only online, I download and save it, but then I also print it. I can print two-sided pages so the paper used is ½ the number of pages. I prefer that because I found that writing notes to myself on the computer monitor gets pretty messy pretty fast.
Given that the pdf manual is expensive to write, i... (show quote)


As you said the cost of writing the manual is the same regardless. Once the manual is written it cost nothing to make the PDF version. It would cost at least a few dollars for the paper version per copy. Of course the more printed the less it cost per copy. I do like the paper version but I use the PDF version a lot.

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May 28, 2019 20:10:15   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Bill_de wrote:
In a high school English class we were given an assignment to write a report. The topics we were given to choose from seemed absurd, and I said so. The teacher explained that the topic wasn't the point. Learning how to find the information was the point.

That lesson has paid off many times over the years.

---




Absolutely!

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May 28, 2019 20:16:04   #
74images Loc: Los Angeles, California
 
I Bought Two Canon Powershots in 2013 & 14, & the Manuals were "Short & Sweet!"

If I wanted to Get More Details on My Two Powershots, I have to Download on a Computer or my Tablet to Know All Details on my Canons.

Before that, when I Bought my Two Low End Nikon Coolpix Cameras in 2007/08, Both had the Full Manuals.

Times have Changed with the Camera Makers, Less Paper, & Get Full Details to Operate Your New Camera Online Now!

That's the Way it is Now...Camera Owners have to Go Online to Know how to Fully Operate your New Camera & what the Features are on the Camera, they Just Print Out the Basics Now!

74images

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May 28, 2019 20:43:06   #
cowboydid2 Loc: The highways and byways of America
 
I COULD purchase paper copies, but digital are free, and when we go on a trip, which is often, my ten and twelve year old sons take theirs and I take my primary and a backup, plus one extra just in case. Carrying 5 separate paper manuals is a major hassle, when I can have all of them on my phone, laptop, and tablet. Plus digital manuals of my speed flashes.

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May 28, 2019 20:54:05   #
Mudbuggus Loc: Acadiana
 
I though that I was the only guy that still had Canon's ftB and AE1

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