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Understanding F-Stop, Shutter Speed, and ISO class update
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May 2, 2019 11:34:55   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
grandpaw wrote:
I appreciate and respect your opinion but I disagree that they are misleading and functionally wrong. I plan to keep them as is and hope that it does not cause any people taking the class to be misinformed.


Please reread my comment. I did not say that they are functionally wrong.

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May 2, 2019 11:38:20   #
xt2 Loc: British Columbia, Canada
 
grandpaw wrote:
I just thought that I would report that around thirty something people attended my class last night. All brought real cameras, not cell phones, and before the class ended I made sure everyone could change these settings and change shooting modes and understood how each worked. This is a handout I made that each person received that I hope helps them understand the different settings and how the affect the photo they are taking. I made all settings one full stop apart so it would be easier to relate how each of the setting affected the amount of light. I left out the in between settings to keep it easier to follow and cut down on confusion. I received a lot of positive feedback and managed to get everyone in the class feeling a lot more comfortable with taking more control of their camera. I think everyone had a good learning experience and I am looking forward to my next class in the future.
I just thought that I would report that around thi... (show quote)


That is a great little visual for folks getting into photography Jeff... Well done!

Cheers!

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May 2, 2019 12:46:06   #
nadelewitz Loc: Ithaca NY
 
Nice chart!
How about saying "less grain with film" and "less noise with digital"?

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May 2, 2019 13:10:02   #
Zario Loc: sacramento, CA
 
Sorry for the blank send. What I meant to say and send is to second what has already been said in praise of your chart. I attended a class at Mike's Camera. They could really really use what you have created. I could and still can use the chart. Thank you very much.

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May 2, 2019 13:11:11   #
grandpaw
 
burkphoto wrote:
Please reread my comment. I did not say that they are functionally wrong.


May I suggest if you have an abundance of information you want to share with everyone to just start your own post and put it there. No disrespect but I am tired of discussing this.

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May 2, 2019 13:16:04   #
grandpaw
 
nadelewitz wrote:
Nice chart!
How about saying "less grain with film" and "less noise with digital"?


Someone mentioned that earlier and I thought it was a good suggestion so I changed it to grain/noise. Thanks for your suggestion.

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May 2, 2019 13:20:46   #
nadelewitz Loc: Ithaca NY
 
burkphoto wrote:
I hate to belabor a point, but here again, wording is important for your students' ultimate understanding. Your slides aren't functionally wrong, just slightly misleading and inaccurate.

Changing ISO does not amplify or attenuate LIGHT. It changes the volume of LIGHT *required* to make the exposure.

In the film world, changing ISO by changing film stocks changes the size of the silver salt grains in the emulsion.

In the digital world, it merely changes one or both of these two things — the analog electrical signal coming from the sensor is amplified or attenuated before it is digitized, and/or the range of values used to process the image is altered (for example, the highlight level is set lower, raising all the other values on the scale). Even that is a gross oversimplification, but sufficient for most to understand that the process occurs immediately after image capture and before the file is processed to an image or saved as raw data.

Only two variables comprise the actual EXPOSURE: Aperture and Time.

Two other variables affect *how much* exposure is needed: The volume of light available to make the exposure, and the film or sensor sensitivity. Sensitivity (ISO) sets the absolute volume of light required for a proper exposure (How many photons of light do we need for a full tonal scale?). The amount of light on the scene *and* the sensitivity factor together to set the Exposure Value, or the match up of the f/stop and shutter speed scales.

We tend to confuse ISO with exposure, because digital cameras allow varying the ISO for each exposure, and may even include auto ISO with both manual and auto exposure modes.

Here's a bit of interesting trivia: Many folks assume ISO is an acronym. That is incorrect, but understandable due to the derivation of the film speed scale used in ASA, which WAS an acronym — for the American Standards Association (now ANSI).

A few decades ago, when the major film manufacturers started to change their sensitivity scale over to ISO, prominent writers in the photo industry trade press failed to mention the correct pronunciation, or even look it up. I heard them on trade show floors like the old PMA, talking about I-S-O, making an innocent assumption.

The standards setting body is the International Organization for Standardization:

"It's all in the name:

Because 'International Organization for Standardization' would have different acronyms in different languages (IOS in English, OIN in French for Organisation internationale de normalisation), our founders decided to give it the short form ISO. ISO is derived from the Greek isos, meaning equal. Whatever the country, whatever the language, we are always ISO."

Source: https://www.iso.org/about-us.html

The name gets right to the heart of the organization charter: Helping everyone measure the same things the same way.
I hate to belabor a point, but here again, wording... (show quote)


Give us a break, burkphoto. Quote what the organization itself says:

"It's all in the name
Because 'International Organization for Standardization' would have different acronyms in different languages (IOS in English, OIN in French for Organisation internationale de normalisation), our founders decided to give it the short form ISO. ISO is derived from the Greek isos, meaning equal. Whatever the country, whatever the language, we are always ISO."

ISO IS TOO an acronym.

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May 2, 2019 13:53:53   #
BebuLamar
 
nadelewitz wrote:
Give us a break, burkphoto. Quote what the organization itself says:

"It's all in the name
Because 'International Organization for Standardization' would have different acronyms in different languages (IOS in English, OIN in French for Organisation internationale de normalisation), our founders decided to give it the short form ISO. ISO is derived from the Greek isos, meaning equal. Whatever the country, whatever the language, we are always ISO."

ISO IS TOO an acronym.
Give us a break, burkphoto. Quote what the organi... (show quote)


Not according the the "International Organization for Standardization" it's not an acronym. If you read Burk's quote is a short form ISO and is not an acronym. It's not I S O it's a one word ISO.

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May 2, 2019 15:03:26   #
47greyfox Loc: on the edge of the Colorado front range
 
grandpaw.... are you getting tired yet?

BTW, thanks for the presentation link!

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May 2, 2019 15:23:20   #
nadelewitz Loc: Ithaca NY
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Not according the the "International Organization for Standardization" it's not an acronym. If you read Burk's quote is a short form ISO and is not an acronym. It's not I S O it's a one word ISO.


I don't see your distinction.

We need to make this a grammar discussion? Okay.

Acronyms become words by common use.

Acronyms are one word made from initials. We pronounce them as one word, not as separate letters, if the letters can be sounded as one word. This is EVERYWHERE. Eye-so, DOS (as in MS-DOS), ASCAP, NASA, AWOL, Laser, radar, SWAT (the cops), WASP (white Anglo-Saxon Protestant), scuba, you need more?

FBI, CIA, USA are acronyms that are spoken as separate letters, because phonetically they aren't speakable words. Still, they are acronyms.

See now? If you don't believe me, Google "acronyms" and "examples of acronyms" as I did.

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May 2, 2019 15:25:22   #
grandpaw
 
47greyfox wrote:
grandpaw.... are you getting tired yet?

BTW, thanks for the presentation link!


Tired enough that I went and took a nap. LOL

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May 2, 2019 16:54:40   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
nadelewitz wrote:
Give us a break, burkphoto. Quote what the organization itself says:

"It's all in the name
Because 'International Organization for Standardization' would have different acronyms in different languages (IOS in English, OIN in French for Organisation internationale de normalisation), our founders decided to give it the short form ISO. ISO is derived from the Greek isos, meaning equal. Whatever the country, whatever the language, we are always ISO."

ISO IS TOO an acronym.
Give us a break, burkphoto. Quote what the organi... (show quote)


Nope. The organisation realized that one acronym could not work Internationally, so they chose a name.

Smart folks.

---

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May 2, 2019 19:24:53   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
nadelewitz wrote:
Give us a break, burkphoto. Quote what the organization itself says:

"It's all in the name
Because 'International Organization for Standardization' would have different acronyms in different languages (IOS in English, OIN in French for Organisation internationale de normalisation), our founders decided to give it the short form ISO. ISO is derived from the Greek isos, meaning equal. Whatever the country, whatever the language, we are always ISO."

ISO IS TOO an acronym.
Give us a break, burkphoto. Quote what the organi... (show quote)


Not... Every other ISO standard is called by the name, ‘eye-so’ or ‘eee-so’.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.webopedia.com/amp/TERM/I/ISO.html

https://www.nickcarverphotography.com/blog/tag/how-to-pronounce-iso/

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May 2, 2019 20:26:41   #
Hamltnblue Loc: Springfield PA
 
beagle mom wrote:
Small aperature more DOF? Isn’t it less? Small aperature = more Bokeh.


Hi Beagle mom.
The small aperature (Larger F number) results in the light entering the lens at a sharper angle.
I like to think of it like skipping stones on a lake.
If you throw the stone at an angle more towards the water/your feet, (large aperature/small f number), the distance between hops is pretty small. (depth of field)
If you throw the stone at an angle more parallel to the water(small aperature/high F number), the distance between hops is much larger (more depth of field)

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May 2, 2019 21:09:39   #
Rayjenks
 
This is great can you tell me how to print from a iPad when I go to print it only shows the lower corner. Each page has a section of it.

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