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Apr 30, 2019 17:42:06   #
Canisdirus
 
IDguy wrote:
Nope. Simple math.


The reason why dual slots are a more favorable choice is just the opposite.
Not sure what cave you have been living in.
If you shoot a wedding (as a random example) and your card fails ... you are quite simply screwed.
Why the second slot is desirable..... this is common knowledge btw.
Unless of course, you prefer extremely angry brides beating the stuffing out of you ... and not getting paid.

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Apr 30, 2019 17:50:12   #
vandy
 
Thomas Firth wrote:
I'm curious how people feel that bought their new Nikon Z7 last month to see that Nikon reduced the price on them so soon. Me personally, I am really ticked off. I understand that if you bought the Z7 less than 30 days ago that there might be some relief in order but in my case it was about 36 days ago and B&H basically said "Sorry".


I know how you feel, I got in on the deal last month with a trade in. I traded in a D3400 with the 18-55 lens and basically got back the price of the kit that I bought at Costco about a year ago so I felt pretty good about it. You have to pounce when the time is right and I did just that, waiting until just the last day that I could make the deal. Other than that I usually wait for sales and if I can afford it I go for it, I also got the latest version of the 70-200 2.8 for $300.00 off, I really did not need to spend the money at the time but I did it anyway and now I am glad I did because it is such a great lens.

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Apr 30, 2019 18:12:19   #
LFingar Loc: Claverack, NY
 
What's the difference between a photography enthusiast and a baby?
Eventually, the baby will stop crying!

Old joke. Applied to many different groups but certainly appropriate in this case, on this forum anyway.
I've never come across such a group that can argue so often, and often so poorly, about pretty much anything and quite often nothing.

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Apr 30, 2019 18:19:39   #
Retina Loc: Near Charleston,SC
 
About struggling Nikon, their hand-held camera profits were up last year despite a slight revenue drop according to the last annual report, though his was only a one time boost from restructuring and from closing some manufacturing in China. I have not looked for more recent quarterly statements by division, just the last annual. It also appears the company would survive nicely if they sold their camera division altogether.

Regarding the serious error of not including two card slots, it seems Nikon would have studied the question from all sides. I never had a dual card body, so I would ask the experts here: How often has your card failed on a shoot and the backup card saved the job, or the lack of one was a disaster? If so, can you tell us which the camera and card and maybe why the corruption occurred? I read a lot of posts here from those who know which brand and series of cards to use and who never had a failure. I am curious whether the second slot is more of a convenience that people got used to, if even for peace of mind, or whether it is truly that necessary based on the known risk of card failure. I can see making optimal use of two slots, but if not for a failure, none of them seem all that critical. Still, I can't imagine having a card go bad on any assignment or job before backing it up. I am just curious how many here experienced card failure on a shoot and any relevant details.

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Apr 30, 2019 18:26:03   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Retina wrote:
About struggling Nikon, their hand-held camera profits were up last year despite a slight revenue drop according to the last annual report, though his was only a one time boost from restructuring and from closing some manufacturing in China. I have not looked for more recent quarterly statements by division, just the last annual. It also appears the company would survive nicely if they sold their camera division altogether.

Regarding the serious error of not including two card slots, it seems Nikon would have studied the question from all sides. I never had a dual card body, so I would ask the experts here: How often has your card failed on a shoot and the backup card saved the job, or the lack of one was a disaster? If so, can you tell us which the camera and card and maybe why the corruption occurred? I read a lot of posts here from those who know which brand and series of cards to use and who never had a failure. I am curious whether the second slot is more of a convenience that people got used to, if even for peace of mind, or whether it is truly that necessary based on the known risk of card failure. I can see making optimal use of two slots, but if not for a failure, none of them seem all that critical. Still, I can't imagine having a card go bad on any assignment or job before backing it up. I am just curious how many here experienced card failure on a shoot and any relevant details.
About struggling Nikon, their hand-held camera pro... (show quote)


Dual slots are not just about backup. They can add several convenience features. JPEGS to one, raw files to the other... video on one, stills on the other... sequential card switchover while recording video... just a few examples.

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Apr 30, 2019 18:32:37   #
Fredrick Loc: Former NYC, now San Francisco Bay Area
 
IDguy wrote:
Nope. Simple math.


But half the risk.

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Apr 30, 2019 18:40:26   #
Ched49 Loc: Pittsburgh, Pa.
 
billnikon wrote:
They were released together. Where do you get false information.
They were announced together on the same day, Z6 came out two months after the Z7.

Reply
 
 
Apr 30, 2019 18:49:58   #
gwilliams6
 
IDguy wrote:
Nope. Simple math.


Your math and probability is all wrong. With one card slot if you have any failure you are 100% out of luck, with 100% no photos. Explain that to your clients or even your family and friends. But if you have two card slots and you have a failure you still can have 100% of your photos saved if you set it up for redundancy. Your chances double to being able to save your photos. Both cards slots failing at the same time is a statistical anomaly.

Yes we didn't use to have two card slots and we didn't use to have belts or airbags. But now that we do, I won't shoot any paid job without the backup and redundancy of two card slots, and I wont drive without seatbelts fastened and airbags in place.

Evidently lots of camera buyers feel the same way and this single-card slot decision by Nikon and Canon has hurt them seriously, along with other issues in their first generation of FF mirrorless cameras.

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Apr 30, 2019 18:56:39   #
Retina Loc: Near Charleston,SC
 
burkphoto wrote:
Dual slots are not just about backup. They can add several convenience features. JPEGS to one, raw files to the other... video on one, stills on the other... sequential card switchover while recording video... just a few examples.

I get all that. I was asking to hear from photographers who experienced a beaten from a new bride (not on a honeymoon) or the less interesting equivalent due to card failure.

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Apr 30, 2019 19:19:50   #
cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA
 
Canisdirus wrote:
You betcha ... for the dough Nikon is charging .... abhorrent.


No one is forcing you to buy one.

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Apr 30, 2019 19:27:38   #
azdustdevil
 
I never buy "latest and greatest". I wait until the madness dies down.

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Apr 30, 2019 19:27:47   #
cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA
 
Retina wrote:
I get all that. I was asking to hear from photographers who experienced a beaten from a new bride (not on a honeymoon) or the less interesting equivalent due to card failure.


When I did shoot weddings it was, mostly, still on film. Since my first digital, a Nikon D1H, I have had no card issues (knock on wood). I use only the best cards, treat them with care, and follow all recommendations. Best of luck.

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Apr 30, 2019 20:24:08   #
IDguy Loc: Idaho
 
Canisdirus wrote:
The reason why dual slots are a more favorable choice is just the opposite.
Not sure what cave you have been living in.
If you shoot a wedding (as a random example) and your card fails ... you are quite simply screwed.
Why the second slot is desirable..... this is common knowledge btw.
Unless of course, you prefer extremely angry brides beating the stuffing out of you ... and not getting paid.


Actually it is flawed thinking. If you want redundancy to reduce chances of failure you need to use more than one camera. More complexity increases failure probability. Always.

I know there are a bunch of people who do not understand probability and statistics. I do.

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Apr 30, 2019 20:28:42   #
IDguy Loc: Idaho
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
Your math and probability is all wrong. With one card slot if you have any failure you are 100% out of luck, with 100% no photos. Explain that to your clients or even your family and friends. But if you have two card slots and you have a failure you still can have 100% of your photos saved if you set it up for redundancy. Your chances double to being able to save your photos. Both cards slots failing at the same time is a statistical anomaly.

Yes we didn't use to have two card slots and we didn't use to have belts or airbags. But now that we do, I won't shoot any paid job without the backup and redundancy of two card slots, and I wont drive without seatbelts fastened and airbags in place.

Evidently lots of camera buyers feel the same way and this single-card slot decision by Nikon and Canon has hurt them seriously, along with other issues in their first generation of FF mirrorless cameras.
Your math and probability is all wrong. With one c... (show quote)


It didn’t keep me from getting a Z6.

The only time a second card slot might help is if the actual failure is in the card or its wiring. Most failures that would affect one card will affect both. And there are many more components than cards to fail. And failure of one card might even propogate.

Sorry, you’ve been duped by the unknowing.

Having said that, there are other issues with the Zs that I don’t like. And some that I do. The biggest like is the light weight, which is one reason Nikon eschewed a second card slot. (The other is they do understand probability.) Nikon has promised to consider working the dislikes I told them about.

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Apr 30, 2019 20:33:14   #
CurleyB Loc: MAITLAND FL
 
Thomas Firth wrote:
I'm curious how people feel that bought their new Nikon Z7 last month to see that Nikon reduced the price on them so soon. Me personally, I am really ticked off. I understand that if you bought the Z7 less than 30 days ago that there might be some relief in order but in my case it was about 36 days ago and B&H basically said "Sorry".


Had you purchased with your Costco-Citi card, the best price difference would have been refunded for 60 days. I have no connection with Costco or Citi other than being a happy customer.

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