burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

I found it:

There is no *viewfinder blackout* at the moment of exposure. You have a choice of what happens at the moment of exposure —€” continuous live view, or image review.

The camera requires *no noisy mirror* that gets out of focus alignment. Fewer moving parts mean better reliability and less vibration/sharper images.

There is *no fan-like mirror to knock dust and goo onto your sensor.* (There is less air movement in a mirrorless camera during exposure. Mirrors blow bits of metal and lubricant and mirror-dampener foam dust all over the place. The sensor may be exposed when the lens is off, but a quick lens change is less likely to spot the sensor than the dSLR camera's own deteriorating mechanisms.)

There is *no flippy-floppy mirror to make noise.* Because there is no mirror, the shutter can be, but does not have to be, "electronic" —€” essentially, the camera makes a COMPLETELY SILENT video frame grab.

The removal of the mirror allows engineering a shorter lens flange to sensor distance. This improves wide angle lens designs and performance, and allows mirrorless bodies to mount lots of different dSLR and cine lenses, via adapters.

The EVF, lack of a mirror, and silent electronic shutter allow low light stills and video work in a theatre by not distracting others with noise or a dSLR's rear-of-camera live view LCD.

The EVF can show you the effects of manual exposure changes. It displays what a processed JPEG image will look like, so you can make menu adjustments on the fly and generate files for truly immediate use.

The EVF can be used for most or all of the tasks that the separate OLED or LCD screen on the camera is used for. It can display several different sets of information, including a live histogram, audio meters for video, full exposure data, a level, and much more than a dSLR can include.

You can see an image in the EVF in far dimmer light than with an optical viewfinder. The EVF is always clear and bright.

You can focus and meter with smaller maximum aperture lenses than are possible to focus and meter through with a dSLR. The EVF can compensate for the smaller aperture during composition.

"Pixel shift" schemes allow still life compositions with four times the resolution, by recording four images sequentially and combining them. 80MP raw from Micro 4/3?!?!

The camera can *buffer a stream of continuous frame grabs,* so that when you press the button, it saves the last 15 frames or so before the button press, plus a lot of frames after you press it. Then you may scroll through the buffered images and pick the one(s) you want to save to the memory card. That lets you pick peak action or peak expression.

Many of these things can be done *after exposure*€ on a dSLR, but the EVF allows feedback before, during, and after exposure.


Why I use Micro 4/3:

On a purely practical level, you should make tests to determine whether any given piece of gear, and/or a given *system*, will meet your needs.

For most of what I do, for instance, Micro 4/3 absolutely suits me best. I record lots of video with important, single-system, onboard audio, and I record lots of stills. The results are most likely to wind up on smartphones, tablets, computer screens, projection screens, TVs, and video monitors. The results may also be viewed as PDF files, or printed to letter-size documents. I rarely print larger than 20x16 inches.

So I don't use a full frame or APS-C dSLR, because there are not enough AV options available at a reasonable price. I could use a few other mirrorless cameras. Sony could work well, but it would mean spending twice as much and carrying a much heavier and bulkier kit that would yield an insignificant difference in the work I do. And I HATE Sony’s menus.

But... for LANDSCAPES, a full-frame or even a medium-format system would be much better than m4/3 or APS-C, especially for making large prints (30x20 or 60x40 inches). Even though the *€œstandard*€ viewing distance for any print is 1x to 1.5x its diagonal dimension, more pixels and more details allow closer inspection. Joe Public probably won't notice, or care. But the format nazis at your local camera club probably will!

Panasonic Lumix Micro 4/3 high end:

The G9, the GH4, GH5, and GH5s series, and the GX8 have a great "feel in hand."

The Leica lenses (8-18, 12-60, 50-200, 100-400, 12, 15, 25, 42.5, 45 macro, 200 f/2.8…) are spectacular. So are the 12-35mm f/2.8, and 35-100mm f/2.8 weather-sealed Panasonic Pro lenses, and the 30mm f/2.8 macro.

The menu and general working ergonomics are quite likable, especially among those coming from Sony and Olympus models. They are most familiar to Canon users.

That said, it's hard to find a bad camera these days. Six sigma quality is a given. The manufacturers have carefully carved out their individual niches in the market, with varying blends of features catering to different users' needs. Study reviews carefully and compare feature sets with your needs and wants.

The MAJOR advantage of Micro 4/3 is that it is the ONLY camera format (other than Nikon's now defunct much smaller and electronically noisier 1 series) that saves you a lot of weight when you put a complete system together. You can save 2/3 to 3/4 the weight over an equivalent full frame system, and 1/3 to 1/2 the weight over an equivalent pure APS-C or DX system ("pure" means you don't buy full frame lenses for APS-C cameras).

The other MAJOR advantage, for me, is that Panasonic, in particular, has spectacular video. I use a Lumix GH4 for filmmaking.

The Lumix G9 records even better video than my GH4, but because of its lesser audio features, it is aimed at still photographers. The G9 competes nicely with the Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II. Each has a few goodies the other doesn't have. Check out online reviews (http://www.dpreview.com and YouTube are great places to start). Menus and ergonomics are entirely different.

The GH5 (like the GH3 and GH4 before it) is made specifically to record the best balance of video plus stills. It is a Swiss Army Knife of hybrid photography.

The GH5s is the most filmmaker-centric. It disappointed bloggers, because it does not have IBIS, but leaving out IBIS was intentional, because IBIS won'€™t work in jarring run-and-gun situations (chase scenes, safari video from the back of a Jeep, etc.). It disappointed still photographers, too — The GH5s has HALF the MP count of the GH5. But that means it records much less noise in low light video… for performance comparable to full frame bodies. It also has Dual ISO (400 and 2500 are both considered '€œnative'€). It is meant to be a low-light complement to the GH5, primarily for videography.

My GH4 (and most other models I mentioned) can be COMPLETELY silent, when used in electronic shutter mode. I used it in a dark theater one night to make over 300 exposures without disturbing other patrons.

Over 100 native Micro 4/3 lenses are available —€” http://hazeghi.org/mft-lenses.html

On the downside, the best Micro 4/3 cameras (except for the GH5s) have about two f/stops less light-gathering ability than full frame cameras, and about one stop less light gathering ability than APS-C and DX cameras, when you compare cameras of the same age and similar megapixel counts. That's just the laws of physics.

ISO 3200 on Micro 4/3 is about as noisy as ISO 12,800 on an FX (full frame) Nikon, or ISO 6400 on a DX (APS-C) Nikon, which is to say all three are pretty useful up to those points.

For video, ISO 6400 is still usable on Micro 4/3, because motion hides some of the noise in most situations. (You can see this equivalence for yourself by comparing the test charts. Go to this review of a Nikon D5 (https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d5-pro-dslr-review/6) and Compare raw at ISO 12,800, with raw at ISO 6400 on a Nikon D500, and raw at ISO 3200 on both a Lumix G9 and a Lumix GH5. (See screen shot below.)

If you are an extreme sports and wildlife photographer, I would *rent to try before you buy* (good advice for anyone in any situation, actually). But know that the Micro 4/3 system you build today will still be viable in the future. Each generation of camera body is more and more advanced, and brings with it a wave of new lenses to take advantage of it.

Panasonic is great about updating the computer firmware in its cameras and lenses, not just to fix bugs, but to add new features, improve performance, ensure compatibility, and match some of the features of its other new models. So the camera you buy today will get better over time, provided you download and install the new firmware updates.

There are two fisheyes at 8mm in the Micro 4/3 world. One is by Panasonic, while the other is by Olympus.

Leica engineered an 8-18mm f/2.8-f/4 zoom for Micro 4/3. *It isn't a fisheye at the wide end.* If you need the rough equivalent of a Canon 16-35mm, that's it. Olympus has a 7-14mm f/2.8 zoom, and Panasonic has a 7-14mm f/4 zoom, too. None of the zooms is a fisheye.

So whether you come to Micro 4/3 from Canon or Nikon full frame gear, you can find an equivalent for most of your lenses. "€œ35mm equivalent field of view" focal lengths exist from 14 to 800mm (7-400mm actual focal lengths on m43). Again... http://hazeghi.org/mft-lenses.html

About Audio:

The one area where dSLRs'€™ and some mirrorless cameras'€™ video features fall far short is AUDIO.

About 60% of what we perceive from most video is in the soundtrack. Yet most of these dSLR/MILC cameras have:

> truly awful microphones that pick up camera handling noises and aim upwards
> microphones that will almost never be close enough to the subject to yield a decent signal-to-noise ratio (i.e.; closer than three feet)
> no headphone jack
> automatic gain (record level) control that can'€™t be defeated
> no manual audio level controls
> no level meters
> no switchable peak limiters
> no line level input
> an unbalanced mic input that limits noise-free cabling to about six feet
> noisy mic preamps

Accordingly, to get around this, use an external digital recorder/mixer at 48KHz sample rate, along with external microphones. Then sync the sound in Final Cut Pro or Premiere (etc.), using (then muting) the reference track from the camera to match the good audio wave forms in the timeline.

What I DO, and how Video fits into it:

I am a training content developer. I use a Lumix GH4 for about equal amounts of still and video photography.

I used to have a Canon EOS 50D and a Canon GL2 SD video camcorder. Using both was sequential, confusing, and slow. Traveling with both was expensive and tiring! Excess baggage charges add up quickly. Security of the gear, and going through airport security, were always worrisome.

Now, everything I need is in one bag that fits under an airplane seat. And if I record 4K, I can extract very nice stills from the video to use in printed and PDF manuals. So now, much of what I do takes half the time.

Since I grew up with SLRs in my hands, I actually PREFER that form factor for video. I had six different video cameras or camcorders from 1982 to 2012. For the work I do, I don'€™t miss the features of any of them.

Maybe if I were making Hollywood movies, an ARRI Alexa, or a Red Epic, or even a Black Magic Cinema camera would make sense, but for simple storytelling, training, documentaries, and film festival entries, my GH4 is fine.

If you don'€™t think professionals can do good work with cheap cameras, look up the film, *Sriracha*, by Griffin Hammond, free on Amazon Prime. It'€™s won several awards. It was filmed with the older Lumix GH3.

On my Panasonic Lumix GH4, I tend to use 1/25 or 1/50 second shutter speed for 24 fps cinematic video. Outdoors, I use an ND64 for six f/stops of light reduction. For late in the day or cloudy days, my ND8 (minus three stops) is good.

The slow shutter speed allows some motion blur from frame to frame, which is what makes film action look smooth. The wide aperture allows better isolation of a subject from the background. 1/25 is very dreamy looking; 1/50 is more realistic.

Yes, you can use higher shutter speeds, but the video will look jerky at 23.98 or true 24 fps.

Three formats, six manufacturers:

Canon and Nikon are just now entering the professional and ADVANCED enthusiast full frame mirrorless world. They are about ten years later than pioneers, Panasonic and Olympus. The discontinued Nikon 1 System (1" class sensor) worked fine, but it was aimed at fashion-conscious travelers. The Canon M series (APS-C) got off to a rocky start. The current models are fine.

Fujifilm is known for its medium format (larger than full frame!) and APS-C cameras. If you want spectacular JPEGs from your camera, look at Fujifilm's XT-3 first. Fujifilm lenses are mostly spectacular. The cameras are solid and reliable. Their 50MP medium format sensor is cleaner than Canon's 50MP full frame sensor, so if you need that...

Sony makes APS-C and full frame mirrorless bodies. Their menus can be complex, but they have quickly become a top supplier of cameras, period. Sony makes the sensors in nearly all other cameras except for Canon and Fujifilm. Check out the A9, A7rIII, A7III, a6500...

Olympus is known for excellent lenses and clever engineering. The Pen FT is a rangefinder-like fashion statement that is a joy to use for street photography. The OM-D E-M1 Mark II is jam-packed with cool features that make it extremely useful in a wide variety of situations.

Panasonic is known for excellent lenses, great ergonomics, intelligible menus, and video-centric engineering. I've noted why I use them above.

I do think dSLRs will be with us for years to come. Their market share will fade, but they still have advantages for certain types of photography that, until matched by mirrorless bodies, will make them viable. At the current moment, only Sony makes a model (A9) that challenges the top Canons and Nikons for fast action, low light sports, and wildlife still photography.

I could go on, but that's enough to chew on for now.

Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.

[quote]Burkephoto

There is no *viewfinder blackout* at the moment of exposure. You have a choice of what happens at the moment of exposure —€” continuous live view, or image review.

I’ll give you that, all though since my first slr (about 50 years ago +/- )black out has never been an issue.

The camera requires *no noisy mirror* that gets out of focus alignment. Fewer moving parts mean better reliability and less vibration/sharper images.

A given since it is the subject of this conversation.

There is *no fan-like mirror to knock dust and goo onto your sensor.* (There is less air movement in a mirrorless camera during exposure. Mirrors blow bits of metal and lubricant and mirror-dampener foam dust all over the place. The sensor may be exposed when the lens is off, but a quick lens change is less likely to spot the sensor than the dSLR camera's own deteriorating mechanisms.)

A bit hyperbolic but a point

There is *no flippy-floppy mirror to make noise.* Because there is no mirror, the shutter can be, but does not have to be, "electronic" —€” essentially, the camera makes a COMPLETELY SILENT video frame grab.

Mirrors can be locked up and live view used when the situation demands it, but I’ll give a ½ point.

The removal of the mirror allows engineering a shorter lens flange to sensor distance. This improves wide angle lens designs and performance, and allows mirrorless bodies to mount lots of different dSLR and cine lenses, via adapters.

Good Point and it can’t be done with a DSLR

The EVF, lack of a mirror, and silent electronic shutter allow low light stills and video work in a theatre by not distracting others with noise or a dSLR's rear-of-camera live view LCD.

Ever heard of Hoodman?

The EVF can show you the effects of manual exposure changes. It displays what a processed JPEG image will look like, so you can make menu adjustments on the fly and generate files for truly immediate use.

This can be done with live view and isn’t necessarily the sole purview of mirrorless

The EVF can be used for most or all of the tasks that the separate OLED or LCD screen on the camera is used for. It can display several different sets of information, including a live histogram, audio meters for video, full exposure data, a level, and much more than a dSLR can include.

The EVR is a good tool but is demanded by going mirrorless, unless the manufacturer wanted to build rangefinders. A defect to many minds that is being sold as a feature right now so to my mind it is not a plus for the camera system it is at best a basic requirement.

You can see an image in the EVF in far dimmer light than with an optical viewfinder. The EVF is always clear and bright.

Can I say live view with a DSLR

You can focus and meter with smaller maximum aperture lenses than are possible to focus and meter through with a dSLR. The EVF can compensate for the smaller aperture during composition.

A plus point

"Pixel shift" schemes allow still life compositions with four times the resolution, by recording four images sequentially and combining them. 80MP raw from Micro 4/3?!?!

Pixel shift can be incorporated into any digital camera system

The camera can *buffer a stream of continuous frame grabs,* so that when you press the button, it saves the last 15 frames or so before the button press, plus a lot of frames after you press it. Then you may scroll through the buffered images and pick the one(s) you want to save to the memory card. That lets you pick peak action or peak expression.

This too can be incorporated into any digital camera system

Many of these things can be done *after exposure* on a dSLR, but the EVF allows feedback before, during, and after exposure.

A point because of the very very brief 'during'

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

[quote=Rich1939]

Live view on some dSLRs steps down to contrast detect AF, and defeats phase detect AF, a major strength of most dSLRs. It also requires awkward accessories like Hoodman to work in a dark room without disturbing others. Yes, I tried a Hoodman (briefly). I sent it back.

An EVF works just like a dSLR viewfinder in that you hold it to your eye, with the camera braced against your face. With a Hoodman on a dSLR, the camera is held awkwardly and subject to movement.

I used Live View with a Canon for a while. It made me want to drop the camera and break it. Whether I’m recording video or stills, I want the same physical and virtual interfaces, the same fine motor memory, the same usage habits.

The EVF is a HUGE plus for me. I have hated SLR/dSLR viewfinders since 1968. Rangefinders annoyed me even more, because that split image thing always got in the way of my subject.

We used hundreds of midrange Canons at my former employer. They were generally fine machines, but every now and then we would receive a new one that could not be made to focus with any of our lenses. I sent one EOS 40D back three times, and they could not make it focus properly. They replaced it with a different body. That’s how I learned about micro focus adjustment and the PITA it can be.

The things that can be “incorporated into any digital camera system” by and large haven’t been. For the last decade or so, most of the real innovation has been in the mirrorless market. Nikon and Canon have finally jumped in with serious entries — about ten years late to the party.

We used hundreds of midrange Canons at my former employer. They were generally fine machines, but every now and then we would receive a new one that could not be made to focus with any of our lenses. I sent one EOS 40D back three times, and they could not make it focus properly. They finally replaced it with a different body. That’s how I learned about dSLR micro focus adjustment and the PITA it can be to use a body without it… Mirrorless cameras never need that adjustment.

The dSLR’s main advantages are speed, phase detect AF, and the HUGE fact that those who use them tend to already own their primary lens sets. Knowledge and work habits with dSLRs probably count for a lot, too. Old habits die hard. It takes some wheel spinning extra attention to learn a new system's functions, menus, and nuances.

As a former AV producer, I’ve been used to various EVFs on portable and studio video cameras since the early 1980s. They weren’t really good until around 2012 to 2013. The latest ones at the high end are great. The resolution keeps getting better, and the electronics are getting faster all the time.

Again, use what makes sense for you. dSLRs made sense for my needs... until my needs changed and suddenly dSLRs didn't make sense compared to what else was available. Mirrorless led to a HUGE jump in productivity, quality, and convenience for me. Alas, there is no perfect universal camera.

Interestingly, my son, Trevor, learned how to use my Lumix before he learned other serious cameras. Last year, he recorded some video for a project at school using a Canon 5D III. It looks fine, but he fought the camera the whole way through the project. He's at SCAD Atlanta now, majoring in film and television production. I look forward to hearing what he says about what they have and what they teach him to use.

Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.

I know my responses make it look like I'm against 'minus-mirror.' In truth if my budget allowed I would be making the switch. However contrary to marketing hype they are not the "be all and end all". They are good and the new Z series from Nikon has features I'd like to have. Among them the new mount and positives it brings to the system.

jaymatt Loc: Alexandria, Indiana

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

👍👍 Well said!

billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont

The key is PRESS PHOTO PHOTOGRAPHS. Those guys shoot for a living and have done so for a long time. They have invested in Nikon and Canon glass.
I used to shoot for UPI (united press international) we used only Nikon equipment. A lot has changed since then, it was an all male club. As things change, equipment will change.
I have always believed that mirrorless will maintain a share of the market. That share will level out at some point.

jeryh Loc: Oxfordshire UK

Practice my friend, practice ! I use both the Fuji X pro 2, and the Fuji XE 2s. I never found any problem with either menu on both cameras; it is a mind set- just practice until it is second nature- you will be pleasantly surprised.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

Fedex driver who had just delivered an expensive lens was showing me his cell phone pics, they were pretty awesome and.... it scares me to think that soon my gear may be worthless....

Mike Holmes Loc: The Villages Fl

I think the future is camera phones which will replace both DSLR and mirror less. Everyone wants better, smaller and faster!!!

Bigmike1 Loc: I am from Gaffney, S.C. but live in Utah.

I remember many moons ago when I was a young soldier and found my first real 35mm camera in a pawn shop in Fayetteville, North Carolina. It was a Petri, green window range finder model and I was ecstatic. Single lens reflex cameras were not yet flooding the market but they were out there. A few years later while I was serving as a missionary in Germany I acquired my first single lens reflex, an Exa I. Before I left Germany I acquired a Praktina IIa, which I used for years. Now I have several DSLR cameras, which I enjoy using. I do find that it is easier to carry my iPhone in my shirt pocket and the camera function is quite handy but I still like the DSLRs. I don't know that I will ever buy a mirrorless camera. We'll have to wait and see.

foathog Loc: Greensboro, NC

I feel that the EVF is that camera's weakness. What happens when the sun shines on it? Plus, you have to hold the camera away from your body with just your arms. It's less stable than holding it against your face. I haven't used one though. So perhaps it wouldn't be as bad as I perceive it to be.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

The EVF is the same as a DSLR in the sense you can shoot with the camera to your eye. The difference is the data available to display in that viewfinder. So, your concerns about the sun on the EVF or shooting with the camera held at an arm's length are not applicable. Those are issues if you choose to use the camera in that way, but that is not a requirement of Sony, Nikon, Canon full-frame MILC models.

foathog Loc: Greensboro, NC

I believe he's into the S&M scene. LOL

Haydon

He might have that impression in holding the camera away from ones body due to prominent YT personalities using mirrorless cameras with that exact method. Lanier and Ortiz (Sony ML shooters) use that same technique extensively.