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Gun Control
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Dec 19, 2012 13:51:45   #
olcoach Loc: Oregon
 
Danilo, The closing of institutions was done by a lack of funds, not the aclu. It really doesn't strengthen your argument to throw out specious charges against organizations you don't agree with,.

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Dec 19, 2012 13:59:00   #
Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana
 
geophoto wrote:
I would like to see you make this argument in front of the parents who lost their first graders...imagine standing their telling them how safe they are because of all the guns we have.


Must would agree, most might also own guns. Most if not all might wish someone had had a gun at that school to stop the killing.

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Dec 19, 2012 14:05:19   #
FLandWVMIKE Loc: Daytona Beach, Fla.
 
Why the talk of banning "assualt weapons" ?
If you could, magically, make all "assualt weapons" vanish, then the wackos would start using deer rifles. Deer rifles will definately do more damage and leave fewer survivors than the "assualt weapons", which for the most part, use a pistol cartridge.
I could see a limit imposed on large magazines.

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Dec 19, 2012 14:17:43   #
cudakite Loc: San Antonio
 
LaughBrian wrote:
WHATS THE POINT OF MORE LAWS. THE PEOPLE KILLING EVERY ONE DIDNT FOLLOW ANY LAW OR THEY WOULD NOT HAVE KILLED!!!!! THE LAWS ONLY EFECT PEOPLE WHO RESPECT THEM. NOT THE SICK IN THE HEAD OR TWISTED MORRONS OF THE WORLD. LAWS ONLY WORK IF PEOPLE OBEY THEM. THEY ARE TARGETING THOSE WHO OBEY THE LAW AND IT WONT STOP THIS!

OUTLAW GUNS AND ONLY OUTLAWS WILL HAVE THEM!!!!!!!


This is gonna be too complex for some to grasp, wait and see. Crimes are committed by criminals. Let's pass laws to stop the criminals. A criminal, by definition, is one who disregards the law. The only certain way to stop criminals is to eliminate the criminals. Harsh, but true.

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Dec 19, 2012 14:24:28   #
ted45 Loc: Delaware
 
sloscheider wrote:
ole sarg wrote:
The driver is what is insured not the car. You can or cannot insure the car. But, the driver has to carry liability for his/her actions behind the wheel.

sloscheider wrote:
Why mandatory insurance? Why should anyone care if I have insurance on my gun or my camera or my toaster? Even automobile insurance is silly - insure the driver not the car - some drivers are higher risk drivers while others are quite safe. The car isn't more or less dangerous, it's the driver. If I drive someone elses car why shouldn't I be responsible?
The driver is what is insured not the car. You can... (show quote)


But I presently have two cars and am paying for liability insurance twice... If I'm being insured and not the car shouldn't I just pay once? If I had 5 cars the present system would require me to get 5 liability policies...
quote=ole sarg The driver is what is insured not ... (show quote)


The only way you would be paying twice is if you have two seperate policies. If that is the case you are wasting your money. The liability clause in an automobile policy covers all vehicles or drivers listed on the policy depending on the form of policy being used. The problem is that there are several different basic policy forms. In general there is what is called the ISO form that is used by smaller companies. It saves them the cost of maintaining a policy development department. This form provides liability coverage for anyone driving the vehicle with the owners permission.

The larger compaines like Allstate, State Farm, Nationwide,etc use custom forms that they develop on their own. The custom forms favored by the larger companies often provide coverage for the listed vehicle. Nationwides policy is like that. Additional charges are made for the physical coverage of each vehicle listed if the owner requests that coverage.

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Dec 19, 2012 14:36:16   #
sloscheider Loc: Minnesota
 
ted45 wrote:
sloscheider wrote:
ole sarg wrote:
The driver is what is insured not the car. You can or cannot insure the car. But, the driver has to carry liability for his/her actions behind the wheel.

sloscheider wrote:
Why mandatory insurance? Why should anyone care if I have insurance on my gun or my camera or my toaster? Even automobile insurance is silly - insure the driver not the car - some drivers are higher risk drivers while others are quite safe. The car isn't more or less dangerous, it's the driver. If I drive someone elses car why shouldn't I be responsible?
The driver is what is insured not the car. You can... (show quote)


But I presently have two cars and am paying for liability insurance twice... If I'm being insured and not the car shouldn't I just pay once? If I had 5 cars the present system would require me to get 5 liability policies...
quote=ole sarg The driver is what is insured not ... (show quote)


The only way you would be paying twice is if you have two seperate policies. If that is the case you are wasting your money. The liability clause in an automobile policy covers all vehicles or drivers listed on the policy depending on the form of policy being used. The problem is that there are several different basic policy forms. In general there is what is called the ISO form that is used by smaller companies. It saves them the cost of maintaining a policy development department. This form provides liability coverage for anyone driving the vehicle with the owners permission.

The larger compaines like Allstate, State Farm, Nationwide,etc use custom forms that they develop on their own. The custom forms favored by the larger companies often provide coverage for the listed vehicle. Nationwides policy is like that. Additional charges are made for the physical coverage of each vehicle listed if the owner requests that coverage.
quote=sloscheider quote=ole sarg The driver is w... (show quote)


Hmmmm, I wonder if Pennsylvania is different than MN. I recently updated policies and got quotes from several companies large and small. They all quoted me per vehicle - I only have a replacement policy (comprehensive) on the one vehicle with a loan.

I just pulled this from Progressive's website:

Quote:
Multiple Vehicles
-If one vehicle on the policy has Liability insurance, all of the vehicles must have it.
-The selected Liability limits must be the same for all vehicles on a policy.

Reply
Dec 19, 2012 14:39:02   #
Black Bart Loc: Indiana
 
People throw the assault rifle name around all the time and just like those in the media they don't know what it is or what the law is for one.
Assault rifle is a full auto and they were made illegal in the gun act of 1934.
Only way to legally own one is to undergo a FBI check and buy a $200.00 stamp it is registered in the national firearms registry and since 1934 there has not been even one case of a legally registered gun used in the commission of a crime.
The AR15 is nothing more than a semi auto rifle but since it looks like a M16 people go nuts over it when it is no different than any semi auto other than looks.

The Clinton administration got a bill pushed through that made it illegal to manufacture or sell new full auto weapons but those who owned them could keep them.

Supply and demand works Slick Willy made me a small fortune because I owned a lot of class 3 weapons that I had around $600.00 in them after the change in the law I sold them for $6000.00 a piece.

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Dec 19, 2012 14:50:01   #
EarthArts Loc: Schenectady,NY
 
MtnMan wrote:
the_imaginist wrote:
Ahh, you probably thought that I was going to say ban all guns. Not so. In reality I don't personally like guns, but would not ban all fire arms. But I do hope that Congress will pass a ban on assault weapons. I don't see the need for them in private life.

No, actually my post is about Gun Control... responsible control of the guns that you own. Lifetime responsibility of that weapon.

Here is how works;

Every firearm carries a title. Fully registered. Just like an automobile. When it's sold that ownership is transferred. All guns are titled and insured, and owners are licensed(certified) to operate. If the gun ever shows up at a crime scene or an accidental shooting, you are still held to some level of responsibility because you didn't exercise enough "control" over that firearm. (Gun safes) If you sell it, then you have to go through the same basic channels as selling a vehicle. Don't try to argue it's too complicated because it goes on every day with motor vehicles.

Insurance is mandatory..... too expensive? Take it up with the gun lobby and have them convince the insurance lobby that responsible gun ownership really is safer than automobiles.
Ahh, you probably thought that I was going to say ... (show quote)


Actually we already have data that shows it won't work to solve the mass murder problem because it does not address the cause of the problem. It just adds more hassle for the innocent.

Here's a good article on where to look for solutions:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323723104578185271857424036.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
quote=the_imaginist Ahh, you probably thought tha... (show quote)


Good article. It should be mandatory reading for all legislators.

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Dec 19, 2012 15:48:18   #
dixiemegapixel Loc: Salemburg, NC
 
Laws and regulations only work with those who obey laws. It's not enough any more for thieves to break in and grab valuables; In North Carolina, we are seeing doors smashed down and large safes being dragged across floors and loaded into vans that are sitting inside the victims' garages.

We have thousands of laws and requirements for vehicles and drivers. Again, it's honest citizens who obey them. Several years ago I lived in Florida, where I read an article stating nearly half of the vehicles on the road were uninsured, while I was paying over $4 k annually just for insurance. At the same time, I saw on the news, daily, segments about hit & run accidents, with the perpetrator most often described as a hispanic male.

Nobody uses gun display cabinets anymore. Everyone I know keeps them locked up. We have even had guns stolen from gun shops with the infamous "grab & run" or "smash & grab" techniques.

In just the last few weeks, in my rural, down home county, we have experienced several break-ins, with gangs of three or more smashing doors and entering the houses and shooting indiscriminately. And you can bet, those "Road Rage" shooters are not using legal weapons.

As to high capacity weapons, mass murderers seemed to do OK (by their standards) without them in decades past.

Lastly, when I was a younger law enforcement officer, we were always concerned that we were outgunned by bad guys. Our current generation of cops is still outgunned, for the most part. I don't own any high capacity, automatic, or assault type weapons, but as a home owner, I wish I did.

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Dec 19, 2012 15:59:57   #
Pepper Loc: Planet Earth Country USA
 
Think about everything you own that has a lock of some kind. Would you be comfortable removing all the locks you have on various things? If it weren’t for the criminals, people who don’t abide by the law, you’d never need to lock anything. Even the things you lock up so your children can’t get to them you lock them in case your kids ignore your rules. Telling bad guys not to steel is laughable so you buy locks. Locks aren’t enough anymore and one day you’ll discover that the government can’t protect you from everything and you’ll have to assume some of the responsibility yourself. Educate yourself about guns, become familiar with them, you’ll find that they can be handled safely and they can be a positive part of your own security system. Guns have no ability to do anything on their own, guns only become dangerous in the hands of those who are irresponsible or those who intentionally misuse them.

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Dec 19, 2012 16:33:27   #
roygee1944
 
What good does a gun in a safe do you? By the time you open the safe the bad guy has your butt. If you title a gun like a car then the government know right where every gun is and can come knocking on your door to get it when the real control starts. The only fly in this soup is that the bad guys will just run right to the cop shop to title their guns, yeah right! Why do law abiding folks get all the crap, you ain't never going to stop the bad from doing evil!

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Dec 19, 2012 16:45:10   #
Pepper Loc: Planet Earth Country USA
 
roygee1944 wrote:
What good does a gun in a safe do you? By the time you open the safe the bad guy has your butt. If you title a gun like a car then the government know right where every gun is and can come knocking on your door to get it when the real control starts. The only fly in this soup is that the bad guys will just run right to the cop shop to title their guns, yeah right! Why do law abiding folks get all the crap, you ain't never going to stop the bad from doing evil!


In the case of Hitler his first move was to require all guns be registered. Great plan he knew right where to go when it came time to collect them.

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Dec 19, 2012 18:11:57   #
coastlawyer Loc: Coastal Mississippi
 
wilpharm wrote:
coast lawyer..you are just wrong....semi-automatic weapons with attachable magazines with "large capacity" are considered assault weapons..as are shotguns with magazines over 5 rounds...there are many,many weapons that are defined as assault weapons that are not fully automatic...some of these semi-automatics can be coverted to fully auto but some cant..also has to do with if the weapon may be folded up...many criteria but magazine capacity is a more important criteria than "fully-Auto"...
coast lawyer..you are just wrong....semi-automatic... (show quote)


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Not to be confused with Shoulder-launched Multipurpose Assault Weapon.

Assault weapon is a term which has been given many different meanings. One is that it is any of various automatic and semiautomatic military firearms using an intermediate cartridge.

[1] In the United States, there are a variety of statutory definitions of assault weapons in local, state, and federal laws that define them by a set of characteristics they possess, sometimes described as military-style features useful in combat.

[2] Using lists of physical features or specific firearms in defining assault weapons in the U.S. was first codified by the language of the now-expired 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban.

[3] A common usage is to interchange the term with assault rifle, but unlike that term, "assault weapon" has no consistent or specific definition and so is subject to varying definitions for varying purposes, including definitions that include common non-military-style firearms.

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Dec 19, 2012 18:15:04   #
roygee1944
 
AMEN!

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Dec 19, 2012 18:19:59   #
ted45 Loc: Delaware
 
sloscheider wrote:
ted45 wrote:
sloscheider wrote:
ole sarg wrote:
The driver is what is insured not the car. You can or cannot insure the car. But, the driver has to carry liability for his/her actions behind the wheel.

sloscheider wrote:
Why mandatory insurance? Why should anyone care if I have insurance on my gun or my camera or my toaster? Even automobile insurance is silly - insure the driver not the car - some drivers are higher risk drivers while others are quite safe. The car isn't more or less dangerous, it's the driver. If I drive someone elses car why shouldn't I be responsible?
The driver is what is insured not the car. You can... (show quote)


But I presently have two cars and am paying for liability insurance twice... If I'm being insured and not the car shouldn't I just pay once? If I had 5 cars the present system would require me to get 5 liability policies...
quote=ole sarg The driver is what is insured not ... (show quote)


The only way you would be paying twice is if you have two seperate policies. If that is the case you are wasting your money. The liability clause in an automobile policy covers all vehicles or drivers listed on the policy depending on the form of policy being used. The problem is that there are several different basic policy forms. In general there is what is called the ISO form that is used by smaller companies. It saves them the cost of maintaining a policy development department. This form provides liability coverage for anyone driving the vehicle with the owners permission.

The larger compaines like Allstate, State Farm, Nationwide,etc use custom forms that they develop on their own. The custom forms favored by the larger companies often provide coverage for the listed vehicle. Nationwides policy is like that. Additional charges are made for the physical coverage of each vehicle listed if the owner requests that coverage.
quote=sloscheider quote=ole sarg The driver is w... (show quote)


Hmmmm, I wonder if Pennsylvania is different than MN. I recently updated policies and got quotes from several companies large and small. They all quoted me per vehicle - I only have a replacement policy (comprehensive) on the one vehicle with a loan.

I just pulled this from Progressive's website:

Quote:
Multiple Vehicles
-If one vehicle on the policy has Liability insurance, all of the vehicles must have it.
-The selected Liability limits must be the same for all vehicles on a policy.
quote=ted45 quote=sloscheider quote=ole sarg Th... (show quote)


The policies in all states are basically the same. I was a broker for twenty years but I only sold in PA.

The clause you are referring to means that you cannot have one car with a 100, 000 liability limit and another with a 25, 000 limit on the same policy. You can't have one car (the one on blocks in the garage) with only physical coverage and no liability coverage. All cars on a single policy must have the same limit.

An auto policy actually gives you coverage in the section were it describes "what is covered", in the section that describes "what is not covered", and most states direct that if a cause of loss is not shown as covered or as not covered then it is covered. However this thread is about guns so further discussion of insurance would require a separate thread.

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