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Mirrorless vs regular cameras... Opinion
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Mar 20, 2024 22:15:42   #
Canisdirus
 
bikinkawboy wrote:
I wonder what “improvement” will be next for cameras or are mirrorless the pinnacle of camera technology?

In times before SLRs, most improvements and refinements involved film.

After that the standard (as in the universal 35mm camera built by most manufacturers) was SLR technology; basically what you see is what you get in addition to easily interchangeable lenses. Most improvements involved optics. At the very end auto focus and exposure came about.

Then the industry standard became a SLR with a sensor instead of film. Auto focus and exposure were refined and “new” improvements involved sensors, processors, and image stabilization. Good optics had pretty much already been perfected and so called improvements were mostly in reduced weight, reduced cost and greater zoom lengths. No real earth shattering leaps in image quality due to improved lenses.

In recent years the mirrorless (SLR without the mirror) has become the industry standard. Unless I’m mistaken, most new mirrorless sensors, processors, auto focus-exposure, etc aren’t much different than their DSLR predecessors. The selling point seems to be no mirror and increased frames per second plus a few other things already mentioned here. It doesn’t sound like there has been any major leap in image quality between DSLR and mirrorless.

It seems to me that image quality because of optics has pretty much leveled out and can’t be made much better, at least in consumer grade products. Sensors and processor improvements may have leveled out as well. Unless someone comes up with some radical new concept in photography, mirrorless (to me at least) appears to be better at applying or taking advantage of current sensor and processor capabilities.

The point is that most things, especially mechanical items, can be improved upon only to a certain point. The time comes where you can’t make good any gooder because it’s as good as it’s ever going to get.

Anyone have any ideas of where consumer camera technology may go from here, at least without implanting a sensor and processor inside your brain?
I wonder what “improvement” will be next for camer... (show quote)



Only one growing market now...video.

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Mar 20, 2024 23:33:38   #
Dean37 Loc: Fresno, CA
 
And I stopped using my video camera at least 35 years ago, because I found that I was no longer able to enjoy first hand what I was videoing. Then when I was watching the video, I would regret not taking in first hand what I had videoed.

I don't use the video capabilities of my cellular phone, and my 'NIKON P7000 & P7800 mirrorless cameras" have video and when I find out that somehow I turned it on, I get upset.

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Mar 20, 2024 23:56:48   #
bikinkawboy Loc: north central Missouri
 
As for AI on Facebook, I believe that most “Ram TRX” and “Jeep Trackhawk” videos are AI generated. Other than trucks diving off 500 foot cliffs and landing without a scratch or the vehicles literally driving over other cars, rolling over and over and then driving away with nary a dent, AI can’t seem to correctly depict exhaust smoke or dust from the wheels. Other than that, those videos do look real. I also saw videos of a Russian truck hauling a single giant log, one crossing a rickety bridge and another crossing a stream. Where the wheels meet the bridge or in the water as well as the exhaust smoke is obviously fake. I’m sure AI will continue to get better and better.

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Mar 21, 2024 00:18:03   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
bikinkawboy wrote:
I wonder what “improvement” will be next for cameras or are mirrorless the pinnacle of camera technology?

In times before SLRs, most improvements and refinements involved film.

After that the standard (as in the universal 35mm camera built by most manufacturers) was SLR technology; basically what you see is what you get in addition to easily interchangeable lenses. Most improvements involved optics. At the very end auto focus and exposure came about.

Then the industry standard became a SLR with a sensor instead of film. Auto focus and exposure were refined and “new” improvements involved sensors, processors, and image stabilization. Good optics had pretty much already been perfected and so called improvements were mostly in reduced weight, reduced cost and greater zoom lengths. No real earth shattering leaps in image quality due to improved lenses.

In recent years the mirrorless (SLR without the mirror) has become the industry standard. Unless I’m mistaken, most new mirrorless sensors, processors, auto focus-exposure, etc aren’t much different than their DSLR predecessors. The selling point seems to be no mirror and increased frames per second plus a few other things already mentioned here. It doesn’t sound like there has been any major leap in image quality between DSLR and mirrorless.

It seems to me that image quality because of optics has pretty much leveled out and can’t be made much better, at least in consumer grade products. Sensors and processor improvements may have leveled out as well. Unless someone comes up with some radical new concept in photography, mirrorless (to me at least) appears to be better at applying or taking advantage of current sensor and processor capabilities.

The point is that most things, especially mechanical items, can be improved upon only to a certain point. The time comes where you can’t make good any gooder because it’s as good as it’s ever going to get.

Anyone have any ideas of where consumer camera technology may go from here, at least without implanting a sensor and processor inside your brain?
I wonder what “improvement” will be next for camer... (show quote)


Look to the modern smartphone camera systems to get a clue.

There is one hell of a lot more subtlety to the features of mirrorless cameras than most people who have not tried them realize. It's not any one major thing... It's a combination of hundreds and hundreds of small refinements over the last 16 years or so that have made modern mirrorless cameras what they are. SLR technology is mostly frozen in time. Mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras are maturing nicely now.

As Ysarex mentioned above, wide angle lens designs for mirrorless cameras take full advantage of a shorter lens flange-to-sensor distance. There is much less distortion with extreme wide angle lenses than we had with dSLRs and SLRs.

There are many great systems on the market today, from medium format to full frame to APS-C to Micro 4/3. Competition is fierce, which means we all benefit from each manufacturer trying to find its niche in the market.

All that said, dSLR users who are content with their current systems should feel no immediate need to switch from dSLR to mirrorless. Frankly, every ten dollars spent on photographic experiences and education is probably worth every $100 spent on new a camera system, UNLESS there is a clear and unique feature that will get you an image a dSLR is incapable of making (as Ysarex pointed out).

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Mar 21, 2024 02:35:13   #
OldCADuser Loc: Irvine, CA
 
Rongnongno wrote:
The progress is in the sensor, nowhere else.

The idea of using a display instead of through the lens is reverting to old time when folks were looking from above to focus...


Not sure what point you're trying to make but I'm on my 3rd mirrorless camera and I've always had an eyepiece to look through the lens. And it's way more than then the sensors, but even so, if the sensors are part of the move to mirrorless, how is that an issue?

While my first mirrorless was a Sony NEX-3N (which I purchased in 2014) it was really for my wife since I was still using a DSLR, a Sony A65 (which I purchased in 2012). I ended-up using the NEX-3N on a couple of trips because it was small and easy to pack in my briefcase, but I preferred my A65 as it had a 24Mp sensor and the NEX-3N was less than 16Mp. However, I sort of liked the compact nature of the NEX-3N but it didn't have some of the features of the A65 and the lower Mp left me a bit cold. But then Sony introduced their a6000 series, which was basically the same physical size as the NEX-3N but was 24Mp. Now it still lacked some of the A65 features but it was small and handy and so I bought one in 2016. It only took a couple outings where I didn't have to carry such a heavy camera and I was still getting the same resolution images, that the A65 soon was relegated to my back-up camera. Then in 2020 I upgraded to the Sony a6500, which now had most of what I had in the A65 except for one feature, the built-in GPS, which would geo-tag my images (I solved that by always taking one extra shot with my iPhone when it's critical that I know exactly where pictures were shot and I just archive that one iPhone image with the rest of the shoot). Also, the a6500 was dust-proof and had in-camera stabilization which was handy with some of my older T-mount lens.

That said, the last time I used my Sony A65 DSLR was in August 2017 when it was my secondary camera, used when I was shooting the solar eclipse.

So in conclusion, once I went mirrorless, I never really looked back.

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Mar 21, 2024 08:48:45   #
Canisdirus
 
Yes, all those professional wildlife and sports photographers...Associated Press folks...

All of those that switched...which is probably at least 9 out of 10 of them.

They were all fooled...bamboozled into mirrorless.

Ummm...I don't think so.

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Mar 21, 2024 09:00:49   #
Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb
 
The space given in the camera by not having the prism and movement space has allowed the camera manufactures to do so many improvements in the camera that the total camera has taken a step forward. "CHG_CANON" has put it in his usual (fun) way.
It's not the change in the viewing system but, the opportunity to do many [mprovements.

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Mar 21, 2024 10:36:49   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
One important key to success is self-confidence. An important key to self-confidence is owning a mirrorless camera.

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Mar 21, 2024 10:49:24   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
wdross wrote:
It is interesting to hear this. Even at 74 years of age and increasing eyeglass problems, I have none of the problems you have mentioned with my mirrorless camera. I can see why you have your point of view, but I wonder why I don't have the same problems.

I must wear glasses to see up close, I carry three pairs depending on distance.
Reason? Cataract surgery. That corrected an issue but created other.
No, or limited ability to adjust to bright light.
20/20 long distance, a real pain close up.

Positive of the surgery?
- I was blind as gofer (No more glass bottle as glasses)
- Return to real colors. My cataract issue was detected when I mentioned during an eye exam that there was a shift in color when seeing from one eye to the other while being tested.

So, reading a small screen, even on my D850 and D500 is just a big resounding: 'No'
EVF? I am leery of it for various reasons.

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Mar 21, 2024 11:11:16   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
All the arguments for the mirrorless as being 'progress' are valid - IF one uses them.

Burst shooting? I do not use that.
Less noise (sound)? I could not care less
Compact, takes less space... Really? Add a lens... You will right back to being bulky, especially if you have to use an adapter to use your existing equipment (to protect your investment). Good for storage only, then? Naw, not a valid argument.
Faster focusing? I use manual most of the time and yes, a D850 as well as a D500 have focus peeking.
Live histogram? I shoot raw. The histogram seen in camera is based on a reduced JPG and will present anomalies (blinkies) that would not exist if the raw was used as sampling.
Preview when using a ND filter? One, I do not use them, two, if there is a need to have a preview to make sure of what is being shot, what does that say about the photographer's mastery?
Weight unbalance? It already is an issue even with my cameras as any heavy long lens demand a better handling (support), even more so on a mirrorless.

I have a friend who has a Z8. He is ecstatic. I tried it, I was not seduced.

That said, while I will stick to my existing camera and expressed my opinion about the mirrorless it is far from being a put down on this technology. It just does not address any of my needs so... Useless TO ME

Thread title: Mirrorless vs regular cameras... Opinion

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Mar 21, 2024 12:15:47   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Rongnongno wrote:
All the arguments for the mirror less as being 'progress' are valid - IF one uses them.

Burst shooting? I do not use that.
Less noise (sound)? I could not care less
Compact, takes less space... Really? Add a lens... You will right back to being bulky, especially if you have to use an adapter to use your existing equipment (to protect your investment). Good for storage only, then? Naw, not a valid argument.
Faster focusing? I use manual most of the time and yes, a D850 as well as a D500 have focus peeking.
Live histogram? I shoot raw. The histogram seen in camera is based on a reduced JPG and will present anomalies (blinkies) that would not exist if the raw was used as sampling.
Preview when using a ND filter? One, I do not use them, two, if there is a need to have a preview to make sure of what is being shot, what does that say about the photographer's mastery?
Weight unbalance? It already is an issue even with my cameras as any heavy long lens demand a better handling (support), even more so on a mirrorless.

I have a friend who has a Z8. He is ecstatic. I tried it, I was not seduced.

That said, while I will stick to my existing camera and expressed my opinion about the mirrorless it is far from being a put down on this technology. It just does not address any of my needs so... Useless TO ME

Thread title: Mirrorless vs regular cameras... Opinion
All the arguments for the mirror less as being 'pr... (show quote)


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Mar 21, 2024 12:54:26   #
PhotoMono123 Loc: Houston, Texas
 
I do not question the benefits of a mirrorless camera — if they are features you will use.

However, before you tout that all your pictures are now better because of your new mirrorless camera, do this: print out some images from both your old dslr and your spankin' new mirrorless. Can you honestly tell the difference between them? Better still, can other people tell the difference?

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Mar 21, 2024 12:59:56   #
RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri
 
I'd be interested in reading some personal accounts of DSLR or other format users who were personally approached by the Mirrorless Camera Forces and either hoodwinked or arm twisted into giving up their DSLR's. It's a lot like me crying "They're not going to make me put siding on my brick house". The point is -- no one is asking me to do that just no one is forcing anyone to go to mirrorless. Just go ahead and use what you like using and stop "P & Emming" Em for Moaning) about something you aren't being asked to do.

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Mar 21, 2024 18:39:54   #
Edawsoni
 
Rongnongno wrote:
I use manual most of the time and yes, a D850 as well as a D500 have focus peeking.

Not in the optical viewfinder, right? You have to lockup the mirror, put the camera in live-view and use the LCD that you can't see.

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Mar 21, 2024 19:01:55   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
Edawsoni wrote:
Not in the optical viewfinder, right? You have to lockup the mirror, put the camera in live-view and use the LCD that you can't see.

Right, so, just as useless.

The capability is there. Something folks have a tendency to forget when touting the 'focus peaking'.

I have not checked (lack of interest) but it is possible (guessing here) that a live 'histogram' might be available too. I just do not know.

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