Mac Loc: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia now Hernando Co. Fl.

terryMc Loc: Arizona's White Mountains

"As your photography journey progresses, you’re eventually going to become curious about manual mode. The great news is that this opens up a slew of creative opportunities and ultimate control over your camera and the images it produces."

When are people going to realize that there is no magic in manual mode?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6jTxgtGuI4&t=460s&ab_channel=Simond%27Entremont

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

From the article: "The main reason to shoot in manual mode is that it gives you a lot of control. Far more than the automatic modes on your camera (like aperture, priority, or shutter speed priority or automatic mode)... If you come to grips with manual mode, you will probably shoot in no other mode and, in terms of technical knowledge, be in the elite few photographers who really know the mechanics of their craft."

That's BS.

And after that shovel full of BS comes shovels full of misinformation: "ISO refers to the light sensitivity of the camera sensor. The higher, the ISO, the more sensitive it is to light and hence the brighter your images. Higher ISO, however, also causes digital noise in your images..."

Mac Loc: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia now Hernando Co. Fl.

For me, I don’t always agree with the camera when it comes to exposure. Especially when the scene is bright or dark. When using EC what is changed is determined by the camera, In manual it’s the photographer’s choice.

tramsey Loc: Texas

Every once in a while my camera and I get into an argument about settings, especially in low light setting. I usually win. I win more arguments with it than I do with my wife.

Mac Loc: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia now Hernando Co. Fl.

Not BS at all. Everything in the article is true. As for high ISO noise, you should know the levels of noise with your camera and not go beyond what you are comfortable with. You don’t need to limit yourself to just adjusting ISO, you can adjust shutter speed and aperture also. In Manual Mode you can adjust all three.

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

Nope. I tend to use my cameras in Program mode and when I apply an EC correction what is changed is determined by me not the camera. It's been over two decades since I had a camera that in Program mode did not include a P* shift function.

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

Absolutely not.

From the article: "The higher, the ISO, the more sensitive it[sensor] is to light..." That's false. Light sensitivity of digital camera sensors is fixed and doesn't change.

"Higher ISO, however, also causes digital noise in your images..." That's false. Raising ISO typically suppresses noise. The noise you see in low-light/high ISO photos is predominately shot noise and is not caused by high ISO. It's caused by a low SNR that results from a reduced exposure. Knowing what causes what matters. Here's a reference: https://www.dpreview.com/articles/8189925268/what-s-that-noise-shedding-some-light-on-the-sources-of-noise

In Program mode I can adjust all three.

terryMc Loc: Arizona's White Mountains

Life's too short (especially at my age) to rehash this old argument again, so suffice to say that I am very comfortable using shutter priority for action and aperture priority for scenics. I use only manual mode for work with studio lights. The "I want complete control" nonsense is a straw man. I have complete control, and I also have exposure compensation when I "disagree" with the camera, and I don't miss the BIF shots while the manual guy fumbles with his dials.

TonyP Loc: New Zealand

Why do these discussions always end up in so many arguing there is only 'their' way to do something? Providing a google or Youtube reference that supports their argument.
How about just explaining the advantages of their method, and maybe the disadvantages and leaving it at that. No shouting in bold type etc.
Must admit its entertaining and perhaps a view into the various psyche at play but this is meant to be a photography forum.
At the end of the day, each to his or her own and I get the impression each will go on with what they do, regardless of any 'advice' tendered here.
My preference is Manual mode 80% of the time. Then a priority mode for the other 20%, depending on the subject.

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

I don't care what operational mode somebody wants to use. Do what makes you happy. My issue is when misinformation is being spread around as in that article.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

The premise of the article is fundamentally correct. Your claim that raising the ISO suppresses noise is clearly wrong.

Raising the ISO does not suppress noise. In fact, it increases the read noise and consequently hastes the onset of its appearance because is sets a minimum level that the noise in the S/N ratio cannot fall below.

The problem with raising the ISO is that it leads to reducing the exposure which in turn lowers the signal and the S/N ratio is lower.

There are actually four primary components that contribute to directly to noise. Two of them are the aperture and shutter speed that make up exposure. The third one is ISO as noted above.

But the fourth factor is the most important one - the amount of light reaching the camera. That is proportional to the product of the amount of light incident on the subject and the reflectance of the subject itself. This is often overlooked since we can't really add light to a landscape, we just have to wait for it to change over time.

But adding light to any other scene with a reflector or a flash has always been a common tool for still and motion photography. Doing so will reduce noise.

Another factor that gets overlooked is the size of the sensor. The smaller the sensor, the more the result needs to be magnified. A 2x crop sensor will ultimately contain 2x as much visible noise as a full frame sensor, all other factors being equal.

That's probably the silliest excuse I have ever heard for avoiding manual mode. You still have to think about all three fundamental factors while you try to make the auto exposure for your camera accomplish what you want. It becomes a Rube Goldberg effort.

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

I said the article presents misinformation.

We can all quote you in the future then that this is correct: "ISO refers to the light sensitivity of the camera sensor. The higher, the ISO, the more sensitive it is to light..."

Quoting Richard Butler: "... on a camera with higher downstream read noise, increasing the ISO amplification can push all your image data so that it ends up above the level of this camera's downstream read noise. This give a result that's less noisy than shooting at low ISO and brightening the image later, because brightening the dark tones would effectively amplify the downstream read noise."
reference: https://www.dpreview.com/articles/0388507676/sources-of-noise-part-two-electronic-noise

I'm going with Richard Butler as a recognized authority. Provide a link to an equally authoritative article that says he's wrong otherwise you're wrong.


I didn't present it as an excuse for avoiding manual mode now did I. Don't put words into my mouth.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

So do you.

That statement contradicts itself and I doubt that anyone could make any sense out of it.

You should not rely on someone who does not understand the subject any better than you do. You cannot "push all your image data so that it ends up above the level of this camera's downstream read noise." That would mean, not only exposing to the right (ETTR) but also changing the shadow brightness to reduce the scene's dynamic range (filling the shadows with additional light).

The problem with amplifying the image data is that it also amplifies the read noise. It does not solve the problem.

I have tried to save you embarrassment by communicating with you via PM to help you understand the underlying science behind noise. You have made this impossible by placing me on your Ignore list.

This topic is above your pay grade. I cannot reason with you because your mind is closed.

This is how read noise at high ISO affects the noise and S/N


This is how read noise at low ISO affects the noise and S/N

(Download)

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

You suggested that it was easier than using manual mode. It's not.

You can use manual mode and still leave the camera's meter engaged. In that case, the meter reading becomes a suggestion, not an execution. In manual mode you remain in full control.