dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

https://www.townhallmail.com/jbthbpdthhqwbthtwtbjdwzmmnwmmtndffjpkbqbrrbfsjb_drrphssghhjftdgsjrjtgg.html?a=b2e3dd7593a75ac3959f6457b1e7d38ad454dacb651fe4e078cbaa8719a91b3b&b=23880339

Dennis

InfiniteISO Loc: The Carolinas, USA

Great Article!

"If you are a businessman who takes out loans and pays them back with interest, you can be found guilty of fraud. However, unconstitutionally, Joe Biden can dismiss the college student loans and have American taxpayers foot the bill.

The l*****ts, Marxists, do not even believe that you own your business. Recall it was Barack Hussein Obama who quipped, "If you own a business, you didn't build that," and America was dumb enough to reelect him."

skylane5sp Loc: Puyallup, WA

👍👍👍

smf85 Loc: Freeport, IL

That’s not the fraud - the fact that the loans performed (mostly) is not the issue. It’s simply that they were acquired with fraudulent information in a system that is essentially built on trust. He defrauded the banks as to the amount of risk the loans had and that affects their ability to do banking significantly. That’s what the indictment was about, not about anything else.

InfiniteISO Loc: The Carolinas, USA

"Affects their ability to do banking significantly?" You must have just made that phrase up to try and sound intelligent. The bank knew what they were getting into when they entered into the loan agreement. They knew the schedule of repayment and the money came back when expected and the loans were paid in full. They made the amount of money they expected and were happy and testified on behalf of Trump. And most importantly, they assessed the risk and collateral with their own staff. It wasn't like Trump was borrowing money from you or me and we didn't realize the valuation of the securities. Banks don't make huge loans without doing their homework and if they do, shame on them.

Latisha James got her people to value Mar-a-Lago at 75 million dollars. Forbes said the property is well in excess of 350 million. Many people feel that the property is really worth close to the value Trump placed on it.

The bottom line: this in the only victimless crime prosecuted under this statute in its entire 75 year existence.

smf85 Loc: Freeport, IL

That’s not the case at all. Forbes to my mind tends to overvalue properties. James’s evaluation is closer to what I would value the properties at. You’re right that’s my opinion - you’re entitled to your own.

Beyond that the point is that the investors who invest in the banks - e.g. the people who actually provide the money the bank turns around and loans out do so under the expectation that the bank accurately manages the risk of these investments. That the bank also accurately presents the investment risks to them. The bank is also responsible to maintain proper reserves for its loan portfolio - the amount of reserves required depends on the risk level of the portfolio. Banks have lost their charters but getting this wrong. So by presenting fraudulent documents those investors and the banks were defrauded.

The court could find that the fraud was non-substantive and simply impose penalties for the submission of the fraudulent documents. That wouldn’t result in a large monetary penalty but might result in a barring of future business.

Or the court could find that the valuation was substantially off and impose a monetary penalty that would be based on the difference between the cost of the loan offered and the cost of a loan that accurately reflected the risks. Additional penalties could be applied too that too, under the heading of dissuading further attempts.

At the same time the court could find that the fraud was unintentional - that the values presented were believed accurate (from a legal standpoint anyway). That would keep the ability to do business in the state but still the fine would be substantial (again depending on how far off the valuation is found to be).

Intermediate penalties are also possible. It really depends on what valuation and actual intentions the judge and appeals courts accept.

You do bring out a good point though - the system is built on trust and there aren’t a whole lot of safeguards built in. Yes, as you said, “shame on them” is very much the case here. Fraud has been an issue that has plagued the whole system from the beginning. I haven’t seen any good solution for it that maintained the market successfully.

Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!

Wanna bet?

Just take a close loom at some of these houses that are for sale in Palm Beach, FL.
https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Palm-Beach_FL/type-single-family-home

Mar-a-Lago was priced at $20 million back in 1981??


"..By all accounts the Post Foundation is selling Mar-a-Lago, the 17.7-acre estate that stretches from the Atlantic Ocean in the front yard to Lake Worth in the back, for no less than $20 million."

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/07/16/garden/post-home-for-sale-for-20.html

https://www.newsweek.com/mar-lago-sale-notice-1981-donald-trump-1872498

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

Are you crazy? If you truly believe what you are spreading like manure you would be up in arms at seems like MOST if not all real estate developers for doing the very same thing. Everyone should be. But the FACT you and ONLY those on the Left side of the political aisle are not doing that are they. As with the other Left Winger these attacks are only pointed toward President Trump and only by Left Wing Attorneys General and district attorneys. Why do you think that is? Do you not see any corruption, any political e******n i**********e, anything similar to C*******t countries who do their best to imprison for false charges their political opponents? Do you not see a pattern of political corruption here?

The loans performed mostly you say. Can you point out which ones did not. The term, mostly, would leave much room for doubt. Show us what real estate loans the court was referring to that did not work out. Surely there must be some or an honest person would not bring that up.

When you go to your bank for a loan it checks things out doesn't it in order to make sure you have sufficient collateral to cover the loan should you default? Why would you think banks dealing in millions of dollars in real estate would do any less? Surely you don't think they would loan any businessman including Trump millions of dollars without expecting it to be paid back do you? So where is the victim here. It sure as hell isn't the bank and it sure as hell is not the American people is it?

Dennis

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

You point out the investors. Please show us where any investors in these specific cases have lost money. If the loans were paid back with interest their investment just went up didn't it? Are you missing the common sense point there? Are you like most Left Wingers just out to GET Trump no matter what?

Dennis

DennyT Loc: Central Missouri woods

Speeding is victim less crime isn’t it . Parking tickets are victimless crime. Assisted suicide, loitering, begging, solicitation, recreational drug use, and gambling are some examples of victimless crimes.

I’m tired if MAGA cult defending this crook. They are self proclaimed law and order defenders until the they encounter a law they don’t agree with.

Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!

You're so deranged you're not even making any sense. Many intems on your list can be victimless "crimes". For instance I could be speeding and still be a victimless "crime" if it doesn't involve anybody else and nobody gets hurt or no damage occurs to their property.

InfiniteISO Loc: The Carolinas, USA

You're missing the point. The prosecution of THIS statute in the history of New York has only been applied where businesses left people in the lurch and they lost money. So for THIS statute, Trumps prosecution is UNIQUE.

Quit being so freaking persnickety in defending your ignorance.

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

Oh my my aren’t you out early this morning spreading lies and bulls**t about victimless crimes. Let’s take a look at a few.

Many if not MOST traffic deaths are due to excessive speed. NO victims you say??? You know that right? That sure shoots down your first pile of bulls**t.
Parking tickets are issued to maintain correct traffic patterns and to regulate where people park and when. Otherwise people like you would just park anywhere at the expense of the rest of us.

In many states suicide is a crime. I don’t agree with that but it is true. Assisted suicide then would be a crime as it involves taking of a life. The Left doesn’t put much value on a human life but many of us still do.

You bring up drugs as a victimless crime. Your knowledge of drug use or rather your LACK of knowledge is quite obvious. Drugs are very expensive. Many drug users, cocaine, heroin and meth being quite pricey. Users get hooked and their usage increases to the point they can no longer afford their recreational use. You know lil Denny like Addiction. They start stealing from family and then friends until they are committing burglary or worse to pay for drugs. Eventually these recreational users are arrested and need medical care to stop the addiction. Who do you think pays for all of this? I see many victims here with drug usage. How funny you don’t.

Gambling for many is an addiction as well. It also creates a strain on public monies as does drug usage.

You don’t get out much do you? You are constantly stuck at a point I am not allowed to say. But we all know where it is, where you hang out. Don’t you support law and order? Apparently you don’t for Left Wing politicians but only for those on the Right.

Dennis

hondo812 Loc: Massachusetts

And I am tired of the liberals that continue to defend "Roomba" Joe Biden as being competent. He's not and has not been for quite some time.

Effate Loc: El Dorado Hills, Ca.

Based on trust you say. When is the last time you purchased a home and the bank “trusted” you application without verifying?