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Cost of Charging an EV
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Feb 15, 2024 14:36:11   #
JBuckley
 
Sound nice.
Just wondering “what factors are averaged in” when those lithium batteries are due for replacement? I’ve heard that costs for battery replacement is $5000 and up?

I guess I’ll be pumping the petroleum product, until I can afford to switch over to “blue-gas”!
[Whenever it’s available]!

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Feb 15, 2024 14:48:39   #
chrissybabe Loc: New Zealand
 
I suspect that repair costs for all the earlier EV car batteries will be high. Each new model that comes out will use a new shape and different technology for the battery packs. I think there will be little repair and more likely a full replacement and that will be expensive. I bet you anything you like that the EVs have NOT been designed to make a battery swap an easy process. The cost of the battery (if one even exists) and the swap labour will be prohibitive. They will effectively be obsolete and the whole vehicle will be scrap. So much for saving the environment. I will have no sympathy for people caught up in this as they appear to be woefully misinformed and have a belief system that is not adequate.

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Feb 15, 2024 23:59:34   #
Merlin1300 Loc: New England, But Now & Forever SoTX
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
It’s certainly a nice dream to have your own reactor generating power for you. Unfortunately home power generators lose out when scaling costs are taken into consideration. It’s a lot more efficient generating power in megawatts than kilowatts. Other cost considerations: Capital Licensing, Maintenance, Waste disposal, What is an active nuclear reactor going to do to your home insurance rates? Check with your insurance company. NIMBY
Spoil Sport Wind, Solar - unreliable. Geothermal ?? Meh.
I was hoping the russians might be offering some of their surplus BES-5's on eBay ??

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Feb 16, 2024 10:30:24   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Of course, there’s this:



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Feb 16, 2024 10:49:16   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
TriX wrote:
Of course, there’s this:


Then there's this; NASA researchers improperly manipulated data in order to claim 2005 as “THE WARMEST YEAR ON RECORD.” NCDC deleted actual temperatures at thousands of locations throughout the world as it changed to a system of global grid points, each of which is determined by averaging the temperatures of two or more adjacent weather observation stations. So the NCDC grid map contains only averaged, not real temperatures, giving rise to significant doubt that the result is a valid representation of actual Earth temperatures....

And then this....According to Dr. John Bates, the recently retired principal scientist at NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center, the Karl study was used “to discredit the notion of a global warming hiatus and rush to time the publication of the paper to influence national and international deliberations on climate policy.”

Seriously, its hard to trust anything the government says, especially these days....Cheers, and happy President's Day Weekend.

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Feb 16, 2024 11:18:35   #
hugEDhog Loc: Bear, Delaware
 

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Feb 16, 2024 11:19:25   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Blaster34 wrote:
Then there's this; NASA researchers improperly manipulated data in order to claim 2005 as “THE WARMEST YEAR ON RECORD.” NCDC deleted actual temperatures at thousands of locations throughout the world as it changed to a system of global grid points, each of which is determined by averaging the temperatures of two or more adjacent weather observation stations. So the NCDC grid map contains only averaged, not real temperatures, giving rise to significant doubt that the result is a valid representation of actual Earth temperatures....

And then this....According to Dr. John Bates, the recently retired principal scientist at NOAA’s National Climatic Data Center, the Karl study was used “to discredit the notion of a global warming hiatus and rush to time the publication of the paper to influence national and international deliberations on climate policy.”

Seriously, its hard to trust anything the government says, especially these days....Cheers, and happy President's Day Weekend.
Then there's this; NASA researchers improperly man... (show quote)

You can always find one scientist (out of 100,000) who disagrees with the vast preponderance of evidence and scientific opinion, but who would you think has better data than NOAA and NASA who get their current data directly from the earth imaging satellites?

Having personally sold and installed LARGE (PB) amounts of data storage at NASA, NOAA, NCDC (National Climatic Data Center in Asheville, NC) and NCAR and having spoken to perhaps a hundred of their climate scientists over the years, I have no reason to doubt their data in favor of the usual politically driven minority conspiracy theories. BTW those individual data points which were actually stored on tape at NCDC (which is the largest repository of weather data in the US if not the world) and subsequently moved to our FC SAN storage (DDN) were not discarded, but simply aggregated for analysis. In fact, the chart I published, like any summary, is an aggregation of all available data

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Feb 16, 2024 11:21:01   #
hugEDhog Loc: Bear, Delaware
 
Red6 wrote:
As an engineer, I have always believed that one should always select the correct tool for the job to be done. This is definitely the case for EVs.

I am not an advocate for the total elimination of petroleum-fueled vehicles. EVs, at least at today's level of technology, are NOT the best choice for everyone. My wife and I found ourselves in need of a second vehicle. I needed to drive out of town several times a week to care for my mother. With one vehicle this left my wife with no car. Driving to my mother's home was around 75 miles roundtrip and I was driving there 3-4 times a week.

I looked for a suitable and economical used car but for what I wanted to pay most of the used cars were worn out, damaged, or just unreliable. Stopping at a local Nissan dealer to look around they offered me a 2-year lease on a Nissan Leaf at a low down payment and low monthly payment. In addition, our apartment had just installed several EV charging stations with one located just outside our unit.

The Nissan Leaf offered the range I needed, low costs, and almost zero maintenance. In fact, I probably will not even have to buy tires before my lease ends. It met my needs for this application. It was and is the right tool for the job.

Is an EV right for everyone? No, I do not believe so. I would NOT want to travel across the country or even beyond the range of my EV unless I was positive I could recharge easily. Part of the problem with charging stations is that even when you find a charging station, it may not work. Lots of people are installing charging stations but are not maintaining them. I have visited a few that were not working properly. I think this is a big problem.

But EVs do have a place. If one is retired and living in a warmer climate for most of the year and drives mainly to do their local errands or shopping, the EV may be ideal. They are low maintenance and if they can be recharged at home in your driveway or garage, gas stations would never be needed. If one drove less than 100 miles per week and the owner could recharge at home, the EV would be almost perfect.

People seem to purchase cars based on their worse case use. I have had friends purchase vans or large SUVs giving the reason that they will need the space for vacations. But then they use the vehicle for their daily commute the rest of the time. Driving a large vehicle 50 miles daily for commuting, a common thing here, is very expensive even if the gasoline prices are low. Tires and periodic maintenance can be expensive. Why not buy a cheaper, more economical car to commute with and rent a larger vehicle for the once-a-year vacation?

I see a similar issue with EVs. EVs may have a place as a local commuter car to save energy and maintenance costs. However, I do not think they are the answer to all needs. At this time they are NOT the right tool to take cross-country or other long trips beyond their range. I think this winter has also shown that EVs may not be a good fit in areas with severe cold weather.

So, pick the right tool for the job. Just like in photography!
As an engineer, I have always believed that one sh... (show quote)





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Feb 18, 2024 14:40:08   #
survivaldealer Loc: NE Utah
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I saw a deceptive video about the cost of charging an EV (electric vehicle). The woman said that the most economical place to charge is at home, which is true. She claimed to "fill" her Tesla for $4.36 @ $0.08/kWh. That is not a realistic cost per kWh. My electric company does the same thing. It lists a lost cost per kWh, but then it adds fee after fee until I actually pay $0.33 per kWh.

If someone thinks they can charge their car for under $5.00, that's a big incentive to buy an EV. At my house, that $4.36 would be almost $18.00. Charging at public stations is comparable to, or more expensive than, buying gasoline. That's according to YouTubers charging at various locations.
I saw a deceptive video about the cost of charging... (show quote)


For those that chose not to sign up for the perpetual debt of the grid, charging an EV is free. I haven't had a utility bill in over 20 years. I run welders, compressors, and my house.

But for those that did choose perpetual debt, quit your damn whining...

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Feb 18, 2024 15:00:56   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
survivaldealer wrote:
For those that chose not to sign up for the perpetual debt of the grid, charging an EV is free. I haven't had a utility bill in over 20 years. I run welders, compressors, and my house.

But for those that did choose perpetual debt, quit your damn whining...


The 'perpetual debt of the grid' is there because useful energy is not free. Yes, solar and wind energy is supplied to us free, but to take advantage of it requires infrastructure, and infrastructure requires maintenance and it all requires real estate. So there is a cost to acquire and install and maintain the infrastructure. Not all of us have the experience or knowledge to provide all that. If you do, great. You are in good shape.

It adds nothing to blow off people without your skills. And there are those for whom the 'perpetual debt of the grid' is cheaper than diverting their efforts from their current support activities to providing for their useful energy.

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Feb 18, 2024 15:09:54   #
chrissybabe Loc: New Zealand
 
It might well be that the cost of all the hardware over those 20 years, including batteries and their replacements AND the time to install and maintain it, plus the research time and the amount of time spent discarding some of the ideas which wouldn't have worked out may well have actually funded the cost of electricity. I do note that in the even of a global meltdown I don't like your chances of being able to buy the next set of replacement batteries. Just several thoughts here.

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Feb 18, 2024 23:01:28   #
Merlin1300 Loc: New England, But Now & Forever SoTX
 
survivaldealer wrote:
For those that chose not to sign up for the perpetual debt of the grid, charging an EV is free. I haven't had a utility bill in over 20 years.
Fine Buddy. What did you pay for your solar or wind generator, your batteries, your inverters, your generator / propane tank, and all the electronics required to integrate that with your home?? What is the peak energy demand in KW you can support? And how many years have you owned this and how much have you paid in maintenance / replacement costs. Ain't Nothing Free, my friend. The price of your Tesla (not to mention the absolute recharge hassles on a long distance trip away from home) versus that of a Toyota Camry leave you whistling in the wind.
I have owned a 2004 and a 2008 Prius, the latter replaced by a 2016 Fusion Plug-in Hybrid, replaced by a 2022 Hyundi Tucson Hybrid. I have a 49 panel Solar array on my roof, and a 22 KW Propane fired Generac for off-grid support. So PLEASE do NOT talk to me about 'free'.

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Feb 19, 2024 12:12:33   #
survivaldealer Loc: NE Utah
 
Well, I'm a dealer so I paid probably half what you did. Or less. Plus, I installed it myself. No labor cost. I have paid a few thousand dollars for batteries, but I learned that by keeping them at least 80% charged allows them to last 20 years. My total cost out of pocket is far lower than a utility bill.

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Feb 19, 2024 14:39:58   #
Merlin1300 Loc: New England, But Now & Forever SoTX
 
survivaldealer wrote:
Well, I'm a dealer so I paid probably half what you did. Or less. Plus, I installed it myself.
SD: I don't do roofs anymore - age won't permit that. Neither can I wire 49 solar panels into a service box for the house including breakers, 22KW Generac interface and utility cut-off relay (attached only shows some of the solar panels and the interface boxes). On my 'real soon now' list is 24KW LiFePO4 (now simply LFP) batteries for my EnPhase system - to finally provide whole-house off-grid capability.


(Download)

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Feb 19, 2024 15:19:22   #
tgreenhaw
 
You are likely already paying those fees anyway, so adding the additional KW hours seems legit in my opinion.

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