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What's better to use: a tilt-shift lens, or software; or perhaps both?
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Jun 30, 2023 19:33:41   #
gwilliams6
 
Architect1776 wrote:
A 17mm TS-E lens adapted to your camera is the best option.
You don't have to distort your image in post losing quality, or if you still have to it will be far less dramatic. The lens is designed with a much larger image circle so vignetting is not an issue as it would be using a shift adapter on a regular lens with a much smaller image circle not designed to be shifted.
I do not own the lens as I cannot justify the cost, but have rented it as needed for various projects I designed.



We agree on a item we both use.

While I do use PS and LR for some such corrections, when I moved from Canon DSLRs to Sony Mirrorless in 2017 I did keep one Canon DSLR EF-mount lens, the Canon TS 17mm f4 Tilt-Shift Lens. I keep an MC-11 (EF-mount to E-mount) lens adapter on it, to use with my Sony bodies.

I prefer visualizing the correction directly in the EVF before I shoot. It is a superb lens, but was NOT cheap to buy. Even today it costs $2149 USD new at B&H, and still costs $1600 USD used. I long ago took the financial hit to buy this lens, so no need for me to get something else now.

There are some more affordable E-mount Tilt-Shift, Tilt, or Shift lenses available from Rokinon, Venus, TTArtisan
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=E%20Mount%20Tilt%20Shift%20Lens&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&gad=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw-vmkBhBMEiwAlrMeF78YjiaASxn-yQRhJYaRG6l3YhMvX_JlQ4v7J8iw8_8a7gylcpbD8xoCpm0QAvD_BwE

Cheers and best to you.

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Jun 30, 2023 19:36:09   #
Scruples Loc: Brooklyn, New York
 
Chris63 wrote:
I do a lot of architecture photography (snapshots) with Sony A7 II.


I am not familiar with Sony Cameras. I am sure that Sony made some breakthroughs here. I have several Canon cameras and one tilt shift lens. It is a little more complex even though it doesn’t autofocus. If you intend on buying one they can carry a hefty price.
I recommend using it as if it were a wide angle first. Mount it on a good tripod. Now that you have the hang of it as wide angle, take some photos of a building with nearby tree. Since most trees usually grow straight you can get a good perspective. Photograph two or more buildings together. After a while you will get the hang of it.
Now come the fun part. Release the lock knobs and play with one section of the lens at a time to get the perspective. All the while keep using a tripod not a monopod.
Remote control shutter release can be a helpful addition. Most rooms in a house or foyers are rectangular. With a regular lens they tend to look trapezoidal.
Set up your tilt shift to photograph rectangles from various places in the room.

Just to give some clarity. For the most part, you can screw on a lens and go. With a tilt shift, you need to play with the mechanism before hand till you get the best feel.

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Jun 30, 2023 19:47:05   #
gwilliams6
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I don't have enough need for tilt correction to buy hardware. When necessary, I use software.


I totally understand, the expense of a TS lens just isn't needed for most hobbyist shooters.

Cheers and best to you.

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Jun 30, 2023 19:49:22   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
Unbelievable but yes we agree on something, LOL.

While I do use PS and LR for some such corrections, when I moved from Canon DSLRs to Sony Mirrorless in 2017 I did keep one Canon DSLR EF-mount lens, the Canon TS 17mm f4 Tilt-Shift Lens. I keep an MC-11 (EF-mount to E-mount) lens adapter on it, to use with my Sony bodies.

I prefer visualizing the correction directly in the EVF before I shoot. It is a superb lens, but was NOT cheap to buy. Even today it costs $2149 USD new at B&H, and still costs $1600 USD used. I long ago took the financial hit to buy this lens, so no need for me to get something else now.

There are some more affordable E-mount Tilt-Shift, Tilt, or Shift lenses available from Rokinon, Venus, TTArtisan
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=E%20Mount%20Tilt%20Shift%20Lens&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&gad=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw-vmkBhBMEiwAlrMeF78YjiaASxn-yQRhJYaRG6l3YhMvX_JlQ4v7J8iw8_8a7gylcpbD8xoCpm0QAvD_BwE

Cheers and best to you.
Unbelievable but yes we agree on something, LOL. ... (show quote)


A stopped clock is correct twice a day.
Cheers.

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Jun 30, 2023 19:52:33   #
gwilliams6
 
Architect1776 wrote:
A stopped clock is correct twice a day.
Cheers.


So I guess that means that you are correct only twice a day, LOL

Cheers and best to you.

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Jun 30, 2023 20:21:54   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
For many years, I did architectural photography with a large format view camera- 4x5 or 8x10. I used leses that had a very large circle of coverage so that all the camera's movements, tilt, and shifts, could be employed without vignetting, fall of edge sharpness due to zonal aberrations, etc.

First of all, "architectural photography, in its "pure" form is not exactly the same as real-estate work or casual "snapshots" of buildings and other structures. A certain percentage of the work I do is commissioned by architects, who are very fussy about the accuracy, perspective, and particular view of the specific elevation of a building. There is somewhat of an overlap between architecture, real estate, and certain kinds of advertising assignments that have to do with buildings but all do not require the same treatment.

If the job requre the utmost accuracy, I have found that perspective control and any correction have to be addressed at teh camera. The view camer offered the maximum degreeof control become the front and back standards could be tilted, shifted and swung and a combination of corrections could be applied at the same time. A tilt/shift lens is the next best tool The most useful tilts, shift, and swings can be applied, but of course, the back of most digital cameras has no movements. A top-quality tilt/shift lens has a circle of cover that is necessary to accommodate its adjustment. If a photographer does a justifiable volume of architectural work, such a lens is a sound investment. If you know how to use it, it will deliver excellent IQ and save a lot of tedious post-processing procedures that may impair the final image quality.

I noted that someone wrote that the tilt control on a T/S lens is "useless" and can only be applied to close-up work The Scheimpflug principle can be applied to increase DOP in a font standard swing as well as a front standard tilt. This can be apple to increase DOP without excessive stopping-down thus, avoiding diffraction.

For the occasional job, there are many workarounds. A tall building can be accurately photographed without foreshortening or converging line distortion by elevating the camera halfway up the height of the structure. A nearby building, window, balcony, or rooftop can serve as a viewpoint. An elevating device such as a cherry picker or Sky-Jack can be rented.

Attaced, is an excerpt from an old Kodak Professiona Photoguide. It illustrates the most useful view-camera movements. Someof them are applicable to a modern tilt/shift lens.

As for the OP's question. I advise him to consider a T/S lens, that 17mm Canon is a beauty, AND assess your client's needs as to the accuracy specifications, and the size of the final exhibition of your images as the IQ requirements. There s no reason why you should not master the editing techniques that are used to correct perspective. Even if you acquire a T/S lens since the camer does not have a tilt/shift rear standard, you still might have to add some tweaking in post-processing.

Yes, there are conversions that make the adaptation of costly medium format lenses to current digital cameras. I have converted a Mamiya RZ67 to digital with a Phase I, a special tilt/shift bellows, and some view-camera glass. The conversion was very costly but I still use the system and it has paid for itself.
For many years, I did architectural photography wi... (show quote)


Earlier in the thread I referred to the use of a view camera. You went much further and gave useful instructions for any camera for shooting architecture. I have several of those old Kodak Data Guides including that one. Kodak used to publish a lot of great books and booklets.

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Jun 30, 2023 20:55:19   #
MJPerini
 
If you are serious about architectural photography, and want the best results, the answer is that you need hardware and software. I use Canon's 17mm, 24mm and 90mm TS-E lenses but also their latest 16-35 & 24-70 zooms which have very little distortion.
You need shift more than tilt, and Canon's lenses allow positioning for rise and fall in addition to shift.
You can also use the shift movement to create multi-frame panos
But software is also necessary. I use DxO and Photoshop
The quality of the TS-E Lenses is astonishing.
When it comes to software, as has already been pointed out, it is not without image quality cost, BUT it can also be very good. The trick is to try to use small to moderate adjustments. Change your vantage point when possible, step back , keep the camera level and crop off the extra foreground if possible.
Also pay a great deal of attention to keeping the sensor , plane-parallel to the main plane of the building, and frame for alignments of architectural elements.
Depending on your interest and budget, it is easiest to begin with software (and pay attention to camera position), and graduate to hardware /software. It is easy to rent a lens before you buy.
Good luck, it is great fun.

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Jun 30, 2023 21:12:56   #
Dennis833 Loc: Australia
 
The cheapest way would be Affinity Photo but for the best results you could adapt a Canon 17mm tilt shift lens to your Sony.

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Jun 30, 2023 21:31:46   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
So I guess that means that you are correct only twice a day, LOL

Cheers and best to you.



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Jun 30, 2023 23:33:34   #
williejoha
 
Use a tilt shift lens because that is the kind of photography they were designed for.
WJH

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Jul 1, 2023 00:00:11   #
1grumpybear
 
I would go with a tilt and shift lens. You would get instance results. Sure you can make the adjustments in PHOTOSHOP or LIGHTROOM. But is hard to beat real time results.

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Jul 1, 2023 00:07:51   #
E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
 
lamiaceae wrote:
Earlier in the thread I referred to the use of a view camera. You went much further and gave useful instructions for any camera for shooting architecture. I have several of those old Kodak Data Guides including that one. Kodak used to publish a lot of great books and booklets.


Those old Professional Photo Guides are great little resources. Of course, a lot of the film data and specifications are for materials that are no longer in manufacture and the ones that remain are mostly changed. The many calculator dials, charts, and illustrations about optics, perspective control, electronic flash data, and more are all still valid and applicable to digital technology.

I like to joke with the smart**s rookies and tell them that I have already forgotten what haven't learned yet but when I forget a formula or some technical fact, I pull out my little book- It's always in my camera bag, They are still available through used book stores and online sources.



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Jul 1, 2023 01:04:40   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Those old Professional Photo Guides are great little resources. Of course, a lot of the film data and specifications are for materials that are no longer in manufacture and the ones that remain are mostly changed. The many calculator dials, charts, and illustrations about optics, perspective control, electronic flash data, and more are all still valid and applicable to digital technology.

I like to joke with the smart**s rookies and tell them that I have already forgotten what haven't learned yet but when I forget a formula or some technical fact, I pull out my little book- It's always in my camera bag, They are still available through used book stores and online sources.
Those old Professional Photo Guides are great litt... (show quote)


Yup yup. I agree the film data is mostly out of date. Tri-X is still made and is the same as far as I know. The color info has all changed, but techniques are often the same since the end of the pre-flexible film and the wet plate.

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Jul 1, 2023 03:05:45   #
imagextrordinair Loc: Halden, Norway
 
Chris63 wrote:
I do a lot of architecture photography (snapshots) with Sony A7 II.
I am ready to graduate to something that would let me "straighten up" buildings, trees, etc.

Any recommendations, either for a lens, or for software (i.e. cost, quality of output)?

P.S. Is there any very simple software available (perhaps an add-on for my PC) that would feature tilt-shift as a main feature?
Thanks


I use the 14, 24, 50, 70, and 135 Canon TSE daily. Besides shift, you can tilt with great results. for sharpness in product imagery and architecture you can tilt fore to aft or capture a wall from the side in perfect sharpness at wide open aperture...

Alway's a plus to compose though the lens...

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Jul 1, 2023 06:45:05   #
Scruples Loc: Brooklyn, New York
 
Chris63 wrote:
I do a lot of architecture photography….

Thanks


I am not particularly experienced in post production. This is because the time passed me by and I was comfortable in the camera changes. For those that are computer savvy, I guess many photographic mishaps can be easily corrected. My favorite photograph is the album cover from Pink Floyd’s Wish You Were Here. This was done by Storm Thorgeson. Two men are shaking hands on an industrial back lot. One man (on the right) is on fire. Really on fire!! Then there was no such thing as PhotoShop or Light Room. The man is wearing a fireproof suit underneath. Assistants were off to the side with extinguishers. Gasoline was poured and the man was set ablaze. Great!
I never used computer post processing and I will need a kind and patient teacher.

As for using a Tilt/Shift lens, I saved money and splurged for it. It has a hefty price but I get a good bang for the buck.

If you are not sure, rent an appropriate tilt shift lens and take some photos. Then those who are computer savvy can make the informed decision.

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