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Defining the "Green Zone"in photography, by using Ayn Rand's rules for all complete definitions.
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May 25, 2023 09:01:40   #
Shooter41 Loc: Wichita, KS
 
mwsilvers wrote:
This made my day.


Dear mwsilvers. Glad to help! Shooter41

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May 25, 2023 09:09:40   #
Shooter41 Loc: Wichita, KS
 
ORpilot wrote:
correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like you let the camera take all photos in full auto mode and assume that it is always correct for the scene. Then you adjust everything in P P to correct for your vision of the scene ? I and many other photographers prefer to shoot the scene as closely to the correct exposure by using all the controls available on the camera prior to making the final exposure. We therefore minimize any PP if needed at all. Yes, you will always get an image in Full Auto but it may not be the best possible image.
correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like you l... (show quote)


Dear ORpilot...My goal is to shoot in manual mode which I prefer, as opposed to AUTO mode, and still narrow the digital range of exposure to the middle, while shooting a RAW file on my Sony A7R4 camera in order to get maximum details with the maximum pixels possible. Please share your technique for doing so. Thank you in advance. Shooter41

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May 25, 2023 09:11:41   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
Shooter41 wrote:
Dear mwsilvers. Glad to help! Shooter41


Still trying to figure out what Ayn Rand's objectivism has to do with with getting the best from a digital camera. While you do write like a disciple of hers, your arguments seem to ignore the creativity aspects of using a camera. Full auto most often does not give me the best exposure, the best aperture or the best shutter speed and usually doesn't even focus directly on the specific subject that I want in sharpest focus.

Even if your arguments were correct, what you would end up wirh is an image chosen by the engineers who decided how the camera will work and not the photographer's vision of what they intended. It's a very newbie kind of philosophy which is more about the tool and less about the end product, the photograph.

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May 25, 2023 09:20:10   #
Shooter41 Loc: Wichita, KS
 
mwsilvers wrote:
Still trying to figure out what Ayn Rand's objectivism has to do with with getting the best from a digital camera. While you do write like a disciple of hers, your arguments seem to ignore the creativity aspects of using a camera. Full auto most often does not give me the best exposure, the best aperture or the best shutter speed and usually doesn't even focus directly on the specific subject that I want in sharpest focus.


Dear mwsilvers...Thank you for your concise and helpful answer to my attempt to define green zone. Shooter41

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May 25, 2023 09:25:45   #
Mac Loc: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia now Hernando Co. Fl.
 
mwsilvers wrote:
…your arguments seem to ignore the creativity aspects of using a camera. Full auto most often does not give me the best exposure, the best aperture or the best shutter speed and usually doesn't even focus directly on the specific subject that I want in sharpest focus.


Yes. Exactly.

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May 25, 2023 09:29:43   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
Shooter41 wrote:
All of my definitions must explain the genus and the differentia of any concept I define. My genus's óf any given concept being defined explains what group a given concept falls into. My differentiae of any given concept being defined separates out the concept from all others in their group.
The genus of the photographic concept "Green Zone" is a photographic technique that narrows the digital range of exposure of a given image to the middle range to afford the most detail possible to the number of pixels recorded.
The differentia of the photographic concept "Green Zone" involves,
(1) placing your modern camera on full auto whereby the camera chooses the ideal aperture, shutter speed and ISO for a given location and lighting situation to maximize details.
(2) adding additional light making the finest detail possible through techniques like fill flash in order to be able to create images at a low ISO to avoid digital "noise" that distracts from enjoying fine details.
(3) always recording images in RAW files as opposed to JPEG etc. so as to capture the maximum number of pixels available for a given exposure range to allow maximum capturing of the image details available to edit with a program like Photoshop or Lightroom.
Shooter41
All of my definitions must explain the genus and t... (show quote)


What?!!! All I got out of that was an incorrect use of the word "genus". And agree with PART of the last point (3).

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May 25, 2023 09:42:17   #
kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
 
Shooter41 wrote:
All of my definitions must explain the genus and the differentia of any concept I define. My genus's óf any given concept being defined explains what group a given concept falls into. My differentiae of any given concept being defined separates out the concept from all others in their group.
The genus of the photographic concept "Green Zone" is a photographic technique that narrows the digital range of exposure of a given image to the middle range to afford the most detail possible to the number of pixels recorded.
The differentia of the photographic concept "Green Zone" involves,
(1) placing your modern camera on full auto whereby the camera chooses the ideal aperture, shutter speed and ISO for a given location and lighting situation to maximize details.
(2) adding additional light making the finest detail possible through techniques like fill flash in order to be able to create images at a low ISO to avoid digital "noise" that distracts from enjoying fine details.
(3) always recording images in RAW files as opposed to JPEG etc. so as to capture the maximum number of pixels available for a given exposure range to allow maximum capturing of the image details available to edit with a program like Photoshop or Lightroom.
Shooter41
All of my definitions must explain the genus and t... (show quote)


Placing the camera on full auto is about the worst way to "maximize details", whatever that means. Camera meter algorithms are usually set to give a pleasing mid-gamma, blowing highlights in many situations. Maximum dynamic range is achieved by carefully considering the dynamic range of the scene, knowing the capabilities and limitations of the sensor, and adjusting the camera's exposure to preserve the highlights according to how much can be pulled out of the shadows. It is always a tradeoff.

As far as adding supplemental lighting: that is often impossible, and in any case changes the character of the image.

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May 25, 2023 10:09:02   #
PhotosBySteve
 
Shooter41 wrote:
All of my definitions must explain the genus and the differentia of any concept I define. My genus's óf any given concept being defined explains what group a given concept falls into. My differentiae of any given concept being defined separates out the concept from all others in their group.
The genus of the photographic concept "Green Zone" is a photographic technique that narrows the digital range of exposure of a given image to the middle range to afford the most detail possible to the number of pixels recorded.
The differentia of the photographic concept "Green Zone" involves,
(1) placing your modern camera on full auto whereby the camera chooses the ideal aperture, shutter speed and ISO for a given location and lighting situation to maximize details.
(2) adding additional light making the finest detail possible through techniques like fill flash in order to be able to create images at a low ISO to avoid digital "noise" that distracts from enjoying fine details.
(3) always recording images in RAW files as opposed to JPEG etc. so as to capture the maximum number of pixels available for a given exposure range to allow maximum capturing of the image details available to edit with a program like Photoshop or Lightroom.
Shooter41
All of my definitions must explain the genus and t... (show quote)


😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣

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May 25, 2023 10:11:02   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Shooter41 wrote:
Dear Architect1776...While using the Green Zone to enhance detail, I forgot to mention that your light reading has to be of just the subject and not the entire image for maximum detail. Shooter41


I actually think and use one of the amazing features on my R7 to get my shot correct SOOC as much as possible.

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May 25, 2023 11:10:51   #
Lagoonguy Loc: New Smyrna Beach, FL
 
Shooter41 wrote:
Dear Lagoonguy...I loved and respected Ayn Rand, her intellect and her contributions to our knowledge, as well as you appear to. I attended her lectures at Ford Hall Forum as well as her final tribute dinner and sat close to her during the meal. You needn't tell me "Use your camera as you please." Your permission is not required. I enjoyed making images in manual mode as well as using the green zone technique in order to determine which gave me the greatest detail in the specific case of my A7R4 mirrorless camera. (As I'm sure you know, different cameras give different results using the green zone.) I would like to share with you that I don't use what Ayn Rand taught me to order other persons around or give them commands. Why do you hold that it is reverse logic to make the comparison between shooting on manual mode and green zone technique to confirm which is best for one's specific camera? Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Shooter41 (randfan)
Dear Lagoonguy...I loved and respected Ayn Rand, h... (show quote)


Good grief.

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May 25, 2023 11:13:23   #
williejoha
 
What, did you have to write a paper for school? Give me a break
WJH

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May 25, 2023 11:24:22   #
User ID
 
This thread is full stuff shirt posts about their own expert (highly user controlled) approach to photography ... same as most everything on UHH. But the solid fact is that for the black cat in the coal bin (where there is nearly zero dynamic range) the raw file shot in 100% full automatic (Green mode) will capture the most data and lead to the optimal result.

Those parroting generalized "expert advice" and those braying about "being the photographer" are just displaying their inability to consider the actual conditions of shooting black on black in dim light. "Experts" in their own minds only. Typical UHH.

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May 25, 2023 11:33:01   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
User ID wrote:
This thread is full stuff shirt posts about their own expert (highly user controlled) approach to photography ... same as most everything on UHH. But the solid fact is that for the black cat in the coal bin (where there is nearly zero dynamic range) the raw file shot in 100% full automatic (Green mode) will capture the most data and lead to the optimal result.

Those parroting generalized "expert advice" and those braying about "being the photographer" are just displaying their inability to consider the actual conditions of shooting black on black in dim light. "Experts" in their own minds only. Typical UHH.
This thread is full stuff shirt posts about their ... (show quote)



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May 25, 2023 11:49:33   #
User ID
 
Architect1776 wrote:

Thanx for the timely confirmation.

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May 25, 2023 11:52:47   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
User ID wrote:
This thread is full stuff shirt posts about their own expert (highly user controlled) approach to photography ... same as most everything on UHH. But the solid fact is that for the black cat in the coal bin (where there is nearly zero dynamic range) the raw file shot in 100% full automatic (Green mode) will capture the most data and lead to the optimal result.

Those parroting generalized "expert advice" and those braying about "being the photographer" are just displaying their inability to consider the actual conditions of shooting black on black in dim light. "Experts" in their own minds only. Typical UHH.
This thread is full stuff shirt posts about their ... (show quote)


It's not just the correct exposure that's the issue with full auto. The camera still doesn't know how much depth of field the photographer wants, or how high a shutter speed is necessary given how much the subject is moving.

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