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Nikon z8 stacked sensor
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May 13, 2023 21:42:37   #
gwilliams6
 
Bill_de wrote:
"“CCD sensors are great for those who love the style of classic digital images, CMOS is for those who are looking for a camera sensor at an affordable range, BSI sensors will appeal to people who enjoy taking stunning night-time photographs, and Stacked Sensors are a combination of all of the aforementioned sensors but comes at a premium cost.”

https://techinspection.net/ccd-vs-cmos-vs-bsi-cmos-vs-stacked-sensor/


The picture posted by Mr. Williams makes it pretty clear, even to me!
---
" i “CCD sensors are great for those who love... (show quote)


Thanks Bill.

Larry thinks sensors have to be either stacked or BSI, LOL. Larry has completely no understanding of the tech and the construction of BSI stacked sensors, even when he sees the illustration.

From DXOMark: " The Sony Alpha 1 is the new Sony full-frame mirrorless flagship, sitting above the Sony A9 and the Sony A7 models. Housed in a familiar-styled and still relatively compact body, the Sony A1 features a completely new 50 MP “stacked” BSI CMOS sensor capable of 30 fps bursts (lossy compressed RAW/JPEG only), blackout free, and captures 8K/30p video."
https://www.dxomark.com/sony-a1-sensor-review-speed-and-quality-in-one/

From PC Magazine: " The A1 sports a brand-new sensor, one that shares the Stacked BSI CMOS tech that allows the a9 to capture photos silently and without any blackout, but with more than twice the resolution—50MP. To deliver a clear view from the sensor, Sony has upped EVF resolution and size (9.4 million dots, 0.9x magnification) and improved its refresh rate to 240fps."
https://www.pcmag.com/news/sony-a1-marries-stacked-sensor-tech-with-50mp-capture

From DPReview and Tech Insights: "The Sony IMX610AQL is a full frame (FX format), 50.1 MP, 4.16 μm pixel pitch, stacked back-illuminated (ExmorRS) CMOS image sensor from the Sony Alpha 1 (ILCE-1) MILC."
https://www.dpreview.com/news/2070774702/sony-s-flagship-a1-camera-appears-to-be-using-an-exclusive-imx610-image-sensor#:~:text=Sony's%20flagship%20a1%20camera%20appears%20to%20b

The illustration below of Sony's (ExmorRS) 50mp Stacked BSI sensor in the Sony A1 is from Sony's own website.

As EVERYONE else in the photo world but Larry knows, they are BOTH BSI and stacked. Looks like nothing will get through to him, not even from Nikon, Sony, Canon or from any top photo tech experts and testing groups, so sad. Larry is a lost cause here for sure on this. Best to just ignore Larry here on this subject and move on. He seems oblivious to the truth.

You can lead a horse to water, but can't make it drink, seems appropriate here, sadly.

Cheers and best to you all.




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May 13, 2023 22:59:34   #
davyboy Loc: Anoka Mn.
 
Bridges wrote:
The storied z8 has finally come about and has everything we hoped it would but here is a question: How much difference does the stacked sensor make? I currently have a z7ii with the mpx. being the same as the z8 am wondering if upgrading would be worth it. Yes, the eye detection is better on the z8 with it being able to detect birds, and even airplanes vs. the 7 which only detects people, dogs, and cats. I do so little with birds, the eye detection alone is not worth the difference. So many of the great reviews really hit on the video capability of this camera and my video usage is 0 (zero). It looks like it has the best video capabilities of the big three with only Panasonic being a competitor in that area but again, I don't care about video. If a stacked sensor is a considerable improvement on the sensor in the z7ii, it will definitely be a factor in whether to upgrade or not. I was hoping the 8 would incorporate the 61 mpx. sensor Nikon has been testing to make it more competitive with Sony's 61 mpx. body. That would definitely be added to the equation. That also tells me that with them holding back on that sensor, to look for a new Nikon flagship to be in the works -- an upgraded z9 with improvements in eye detection and a 61 mpx. sensor -- call it a z1. My guess is that it would come in at around 6500.00 and would eventually eliminate the z9 from the lineup.
The storied z8 has finally come about and has ever... (show quote)

Are you saying your incapable of producing a excellent photo if you don’t have 61 megapixels?

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May 13, 2023 23:14:06   #
User ID
 
davyboy wrote:
Are you saying your incapable of producing a excellent photo if you don’t have 61 megapixels?


• Very many Hawgsters are incapable of producing an excellent photo with less than 61MP.

• Very few Hawgsters have a 61MP sensor. Go figger.

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May 14, 2023 06:37:57   #
Walkabout08
 
Bridges wrote:
That's what I'm considering. I had some money set aside for the z8 (not all but enough to make the purchase a little more doable). Now I think I might use those funds and pick up the z100-400 which is getting rave reviews. I was thinking the 200-600 would eventually come out but thinking about it, I think the 100-400 would be better in weight and I don't think there could be any improvement in sharpness since everyone I have encountered has been very enthusiastic about how sharp this lens is.
That's what I'm considering. I had some money set... (show quote)


I rented the 100-400 lens for a trip to South Africa and photographing the wild life. It was a great lens for that. Add in the 1.4 TC and it will give you enough for birds as well.

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May 14, 2023 07:20:38   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
Architect1776 wrote:
Where is this literature?
Many reviews say stacked BSI sensor.
Thank you in advance.


This song helps explain the differences of opinion in this thread ... not really.

https://youtu.be/m57gzA2JCcM

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May 14, 2023 08:47:31   #
neillaubenthal
 
It is a newer tech sensor and therefore should be a little better…but the big advantage is speed allowing the high frame rate and blackout free viewfinder.

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May 14, 2023 08:52:17   #
neillaubenthal
 
Canisdirus wrote:
Testing a 61MP?

Yeah...testing the Sony chip you mean.

You have the Z7II? Keep it...this is not much of an upgrade for you.


Sony may do the fab…but none of us know how much of the design they do as compared to Nikon…I don’t believe it is a completely Sony owned design since it isn’t uses AFAIK in any Sony body. And…the S8 is a tremendous improvement over the Z7II for AF and frame rate and action. For landscapes and walking around sort of shots my Z7II is just fine…but while it is ok for action the faster processor and much improved AF algos that allows make the Z9 vastly better for action.

Sony fanboy much?

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May 14, 2023 09:05:16   #
neillaubenthal
 
MJPerini wrote:
Personally I think the Z7 II is a very under-rated camera,
I am sure the Z8 is a great camera, for the purposes you describe it does not seem to be to be an urgent upgrade from the Z7II. If you shot a lot of video, my opinion would be different. If I were you I'd stand pat for a while, maybe buy a lens you always wanted.......


Yep…the Z7II is perfectly fine for some things and I’m likely keeping mine for those things. However…as a second body on wildlife outings with my Z9…it is terrible and doesn’t get carried anymore in favor of just swapping lenses which are both on a double BR strap. The reason I ordered the Z8 is because the second body on the other lens needs to work the same for both muscle memory and AF since my feeble brain😎 can’t switch modes rapidly enough. For a vehicle trip or short hike…I will take the 8 and the 9…for longer hikes maybe only the 8 for weight purposes…and the 7II for walking round/street/travel shoots. Right tool for each job…and TBH the 8 may become the walk/street/photo kit as well because I really don’t need 3 bodies.

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May 14, 2023 09:11:13   #
mjmphotos Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Bridges wrote:
The storied z8 has finally come about and has everything we hoped it would but here is a question: How much difference does the stacked sensor make? I currently have a z7ii with the mpx. being the same as the z8 am wondering if upgrading would be worth it. Yes, the eye detection is better on the z8 with it being able to detect birds, and even airplanes vs. the 7 which only detects people, dogs, and cats. I do so little with birds, the eye detection alone is not worth the difference. So many of the great reviews really hit on the video capability of this camera and my video usage is 0 (zero). It looks like it has the best video capabilities of the big three with only Panasonic being a competitor in that area but again, I don't care about video. If a stacked sensor is a considerable improvement on the sensor in the z7ii, it will definitely be a factor in whether to upgrade or not. I was hoping the 8 would incorporate the 61 mpx. sensor Nikon has been testing to make it more competitive with Sony's 61 mpx. body. That would definitely be added to the equation. That also tells me that with them holding back on that sensor, to look for a new Nikon flagship to be in the works -- an upgraded z9 with improvements in eye detection and a 61 mpx. sensor -- call it a z1. My guess is that it would come in at around 6500.00 and would eventually eliminate the z9 from the lineup.
The storied z8 has finally come about and has ever... (show quote)


Good question: one that my wife and I face, too. She (is the primary photographer and I claim to be her technical adviser) mostly takes landscapes so super accurate/super rapid focusing is not a priority for her. She makes large
enlargements (up to 6 feet, plus), so resolution and pixels are important, with the appropriate lenses, of course. And for her, the Z-8's additional weight is an impediment. For birders (etc. and videographers) the stacked sensor may be a big advantage, but for her it offers little. Wish Nikon would produce a Z-8R, or whatever, with a 61, 80 (or whatever) sensor, and while they are at it, would like to see a 20-70mm zoom, too. So, we plan to sit this one out.

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May 14, 2023 10:06:35   #
ThreeCee Loc: Washington, DC
 
I’m with you. We seem to be chasing tech as opposed to photographs. The cameras are so good now you will get features but not as much image improvement. Better to get better lenses with good micro contrast and offer more depth of field options

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May 14, 2023 11:48:49   #
User ID
 
ThreeCee wrote:
I’m with you. We seem to be chasing tech as opposed to photographs. The cameras are so good now you will get features but not as much image improvement. Better to get better lenses with good micro contrast and offer more depth of field options

Exactly.

I pay what I can for the features I want, but I never pay for extra IQ either from lenses or cameras ... *extra* being the operative word.

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May 14, 2023 13:07:51   #
gwilliams6
 
neillaubenthal wrote:
Yep…the Z7II is perfectly fine for some things and I’m likely keeping mine for those things. However…as a second body on wildlife outings with my Z9…it is terrible and doesn’t get carried anymore in favor of just swapping lenses which are both on a double BR strap. The reason I ordered the Z8 is because the second body on the other lens needs to work the same for both muscle memory and AF since my feeble brain😎 can’t switch modes rapidly enough. For a vehicle trip or short hike…I will take the 8 and the 9…for longer hikes maybe only the 8 for weight purposes…and the 7II for walking round/street/travel shoots. Right tool for each job…and TBH the 8 may become the walk/street/photo kit as well because I really don’t need 3 bodies.
Yep…the Z7II is perfectly fine for some things and... (show quote)


The smaller size and weight reduction alone has many Z9 owners adding the Z8 to their kits. IMHO Nikon has hit another home run here, a brilliant move.

I know many Nikon pros and hobbyists alike who are already ordering the Z8.

Cheers and best to you.

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May 14, 2023 14:08:02   #
gwilliams6
 
mjmphotos wrote:
Good question: one that my wife and I face, too. She (is the primary photographer and I claim to be her technical adviser) mostly takes landscapes so super accurate/super rapid focusing is not a priority for her. She makes large
enlargements (up to 6 feet, plus), so resolution and pixels are important, with the appropriate lenses, of course. And for her, the Z-8's additional weight is an impediment. For birders (etc. and videographers) the stacked sensor may be a big advantage, but for her it offers little. Wish Nikon would produce a Z-8R, or whatever, with a 61, 80 (or whatever) sensor, and while they are at it, would like to see a 20-70mm zoom, too. So, we plan to sit this one out.
Good question: one that my wife and I face, too. ... (show quote)


Not suggesting you leave Nikon at all. Stick with the brand you prefer.

FYI, Sony A7RIV, A7RIVa and A7RV all have fullframe 61mp sensors, and Sony has a new 20-70mm f4 lens out now too.
DPReview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsGj9DtOlsw

Full disclosure, I own the 61mp Sony A7RIV and it is super for landscapes. I am sure that 45mp stacked BSI sensor in both the Nikon Z9 and Nikon Z8 also has excellent IQ, resolution and detail for landscape shooting and enlargements.

When I need fast 30fps, blackout-free EVF, AI tracking, best and fastest AF, huge buffer, 1/32000 second shutter speed, true silent shooting with reduced rolling shutter, and more like 8k video recording (although the new 61mp A7RV now also does 8k recording) , then I reach for my Sony A1 with its 50mp stacked BSI sensor.

Just a few of the countless landscape shots I have made with my 61mp Sony A7RIV and my Sony, Sigma and Tamron native E-mount lenses.

1) Golden Gate Bridge, San Francisco, California, USA
2) Yosemite National Park, California, USA
3) Horseshoe Bend and the Colorado River, Page, Arizona, USA
4) Venice Beach and Pacific Ocean, California, USA
5-7) Monument Valley, Navajo lands, Arizona/Utah border, USA
8) Las Vegas strip, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
9) Grapevine Lake, Texas, USA
10) Palace of Fine Arts, San Francisco, California, USA.

Cheers and best to you.


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May 14, 2023 15:59:13   #
tcthome Loc: NJ
 
If your happy with the Z7II & it does everything to your expectations, why replace it?

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May 14, 2023 16:01:36   #
tcthome Loc: NJ
 
User ID wrote:
That is 90% NOT true. A BSI sensor reads out faster so it somewhat reduces rolling shutter, but doesnt eliminate it.

The micro wiring grid is placed behind the sensels rather that running between them on the front side. That allows space for larger sensels, usually worth not quite one full stop of noise avoidance.

The marketing jargon "Stacked Sensor" is just as non specific and meaningless as "Mirrorless Camera".

BTW, @OP: 61MP offerrs about 25% more resolution than 45MP. Very important to peepers, otherwise not a big deal.
That is 90% NOT true. A BSI sensor reads out faste... (show quote)


And maybe large printers

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