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Backup drives
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Nov 29, 2022 10:38:52   #
gwilliams6
 
No one system is a perfect solution . Clouds have gone down and millions of files were lost worldwide, never to be recovered, just a fact.

So you need a combination of on-site and off-site backups.

As far as WD disc drives for storage, let me tell you the new reality . For years I trusted and relied on WD large capacity hard drives for storage. Then they one by one died and I had to have professional recovery for my images. I talked with the folks at Geek Squad and they confirmed that the current WD disc drives are NOT of the same quality as in the past, and they at Geek Squad are seeing a large number of dead WD drives coming in for data recovery, more than other brands.

Still have one WD 10Tb drive left working among all my storage drives, but I have moved to Seagate large capacity disc drives and they seem more reliable for me. I also have many SSD drives by Sandisk. Yes I know Sandisk has been part of WD since 2017, but as the folks at Geek Squad said, these Sandisk SSDs and WD disc drives are made separately and on different production lines.

I used to swear by WD disc drives but I will not recommend them anymore. I have had six die prematurely on me, just a fact. I would think it was just my bad luck, but Geek Squad confirms there is seemingly a quality control issue with WD disc drives reliability and longevity now. Maybe that is why they are priced so low vs their competition. Think about that.

I wont buy another WD disc drive again, ever, at any price, sorry WD.

FYI, I am a longtime pro with 48 years in the business and my images are precious to me, my source of income, my legacy.

Cheer and best to you

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Nov 29, 2022 10:42:50   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Mr. SONY wrote:
My drives are in fire-resistant bags rated for 2000 degrees for one hour.
Those drives are in a fire resistant safe rated for 1700 for one hour.
Flooding isn't an issue where we live. BTW the safe is inside sitting on concrete blocks.
Lightning strike. I have five backup drives and not all are plugged into a usb hub at the same time.
Power supply failure. My notebook and usb hub, so that means the drives also are both on a battery backup.
So, my drives are safe.
I don't mirror.
My drives are in fire-resistant bags rated for 200... (show quote)


You make 5 backup copies of your data which you store in a fire resistant safe? Really? And you believe that a battery backup protects you from power surges and lightning strikes? And no mention of versioning. And you say multiple drives with the same data aren’t mirroring. Don’t think I’ll try to convince you that this is NOT the way to protect data because I doubt you’d listen to 30 years of data storage expertise - DirtFarmer has already eloquently described all the reasons. I’ll just say, with all due respect, that I’m glad you’re not architecting enterprise data storage systems.

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Nov 29, 2022 10:43:04   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Picture Taker wrote:
When it comes to back-up I believe you need 2. I lost a drive years ago with my photos on it. When you prize your pictures you can't trust a hard drive will worn you before failing. I know it is rare but it happened to me and that was the end of my storage. Some drives can be recovered at a cost and if the new solid state drives it's 100% lost.

2 minimum.

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Nov 29, 2022 10:45:48   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
I think the most frequent reasons I hear online for avoiding cloud services are (1) 'I don't trust my files with the cloud'; (2) the cost; (3) the time it takes to recover a lot of files.

(1) Encryption apps are available so you can back up encrypted files so you don't have to worry about someone seeing your data. Probably useful for financial data but kind of overkill for family photos. And not trusting the cloud thinking they will go out of business can be addressed by using more than one cloud service.

(2) The cloud is insurance. How much is your data worth? You insure your car (required in most states if your car is licensed to go on the road). You insure your home because it's a big ticket item. You insure your health (if you can) because healthy and happy are two sides of the same coin. The cloud will keep your data safe from local and regional disasters. Local disasters happen. Houses burn down. Regional disasters are less frequent, but they happen also. The cloud distributes your data across the country or even across continents, so regional disasters are not a problem.

(3) The cloud is secondary backup. Your local backup is primary. In the event of a local disaster, you can recover your files. Many services will lend you a disk with your data if you need to restore large quantities of data, otherwise, a couple days of internet usage shouldn't be a problem. I have been using Crashplan for cloud backup. They allow me to store my data in the cloud, but also on a local drive simultaneously. If I need to restore files after a non-extreme problem, I don't have to spend bandwidth to do that since I also have the entire backup locally. With versions.
I think the most frequent reasons I hear online fo... (show quote)


Well said! Many posts in this thread are a classic example of bad and misinformation on a subject on any Internet forum.

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Nov 29, 2022 10:53:45   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
No one system is a perfect solution . Clouds have gone down and millions of files were lost worldwide, never to be recovered, just a fact.

So you need a combination of on-site and off-site backups.

As far as WD disc drives for storage, let me tell you the new reality . For years I trusted and relied on WD large capacity hard drives for storage. Then they one by one died and I had to have professional recovery for my images. I talked with the folks at Geek Squad and they confirmed that the current WD disc drives are NOT of the same quality as in the past, and they at Geek Squad are seeing a large number of dead WD drives coming in for data recovery, more than other brands.

Still have one WD 10Tb drive left working among all my storage drives, but I have moved to Seagate large capacity disc drives and they seem more reliable for me. I also have many SSD drives by Sandisk. Yes I know Sandisk has been part of WD since 2017, but as the folks at Geek Squad said, these Sandisk SSDs and WD disc drives are made separately and on different production lines.

I used to swear by WD disc drives but I will not recommend them anymore. I have had six die prematurely on me, just a fact. I would think it was just my bad luck, but Geek Squad confirms there is seemingly a quality control issue with their WD disc drives reliability and longevity now. Maybe that is why they are priced so low. Think about that.

I wont buy another WD disc drive again, ever, at any price, sorry WD.

FYI, I am a longtime pro with 48 years in the business and my images are precious to me, my source of income, my legacy.

Cheer and best to you
No one system is a perfect solution . Clouds have ... (show quote)


I’d like to see evidence of a MAJOR cloud storage provider such as Amazon, Microsoft, Google or Apple, etc (not Joe’s cloud service) going down and losing “millions of files”. Please post it.

With all due respect, you may be a longtime photo pro, but that doesn’t make you a data storage professional. If you were, you wouldn’t have needed professional help to recover your files from a failed WD disk. You would have simply restored from your on-site backup or downloaded them from your DR copy in the cloud (again, from a MAJOR cloud provider). You need better computer advice than the Geek Squad (of all places).

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Nov 29, 2022 10:55:14   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
TriX wrote:
I’d like to see evidence of a MAJOR cloud storage provider such as Amazon, Microsoft, Google or Apple, etc (not Joe’s cloud service) going down and losing “millions of files”. Please post it.

With all due respect, you may be a longtime photo pro, but that doesn’t make you a data storage professional. If you were, you wouldn’t have needed professional help to recover your files from a failed WD disk. You would have simply restored from your on-site backup or downloaded them from your DR copy in the cloud (again, from a MAJOR cloud provider).
I’d like to see evidence of a MAJOR cloud storage ... (show quote)


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Nov 29, 2022 11:20:57   #
photosfromtexas
 
My house fire in the Colorado goods was estimated to be 3,400 degrees. It was from a forest fire. My gun inside the fireproof safe fired. The box was destroyed and had exploded. I can’t tell if it was from the fire itself or the ammunition exploding ( before or after the box failed?) My neighbors’ large and fire resistant/expensive gun safe was “intact” from the outside…. But we could not open the lock . However we cut through the metal walls either shears. And all the papers inside where ash. We could not get the specs on what temp it was supposed to protect up to…. But it was thick and had lots of insulation in the walls. Just saying…. 1,700 degrees is the standard for fireproof boxes. That assumes the fire department gets the fire under control within one hour. At least, that is what I read after my fire. If you live in the city, that might be ok.

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Nov 29, 2022 11:29:25   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
Just sayin': there are NO fireproof safes or boxes or bags. Just like foolproof is a myth. The best you can do is fool-resistant or fire-resistant. Fire resistance is just slowing the rate at which the heat from the fire gets inside the box. And once the heat gets in, it takes a similar amount of time to get back out.

All those wildfires you have heard about in the last few years lasted for DAYS, not hours.

So your safe is good for an hour at 1700F. What is your device survival temperature? I would guess it's in the range of 200-300F.

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Nov 29, 2022 11:36:29   #
Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan
 
Bayou wrote:
Cha ching! The best possible answer to the backup question.

If you don't have a "cloud" backup with permanently stored historical versioning, AND a local disk backup....you're not backed up.


Really? Is the Cloud everlasting and perfect?

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Nov 29, 2022 11:49:25   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Fotoartist wrote:
Really? Is the Cloud everlasting and perfect?

Perfect is relative.

Everlasting, yes. If a company stops providing the service, move to another company.....
Good companies will be around for a longggg time.

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Nov 29, 2022 11:50:44   #
Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb
 
"photosfromtexas" your house fire was a shame and we can't sure of anything in life but, we should ( and you did with the safe) but we should take reasonable precautions, such as a storage back-up.

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Nov 29, 2022 11:52:24   #
rcorne001 Loc: Cary, NC
 
TriX wrote:
Let me offer a different perspective. What you really need is one on-site backup and one off-site disaster recovery (DR) copy of your data. Numbers don’t matter if your house burns down, is flooded, power surge, power supply failure, or lightning strike (direct or nearby). Also mirroring drives doesn’t help with a corrupted or infected file system. To address that you need versioning, which is typically part of good cloud storage.


I am in total agreement with this. While I had onsite backup, that nagging question of "what if my house burns down?" Always made me uneasy. So much information in addition to my photos. I now have my data (including photos) on a separate drive from programs and OS, I've an external drive and cloud backup.

MY solution for cloud is Backblaze. $70/year, discounts for multiple years. It is VERY good and quickly backs up my files. ONE MAJOR CAVEAT: The initial backup is VERY, let me repeat, VERY slow. It took about 3 weeks for my initial backup of almost 2 TB of data. That being said, once the initial completed, it has proven very fast. You just need to be patient, but *I* consider it a good deal (again for me) for the price and the comfort of knowing even if my house, computer or drive goes kaput on me, I don't lose years of data.

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Nov 29, 2022 11:53:28   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
Fotoartist wrote:
Really? Is the Cloud everlasting and perfect?


Nothing lasts forever and nothing is perfect. But if you pick a good cloud provider, it's better than the alternative.

Distribution is key to avoiding outages, and business failures don't usually happen suddenly, at least with major players. You will have warning.

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Nov 29, 2022 11:57:22   #
Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb
 
If you want to save it save it the best you can. Don't save 1/2 -ss.

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Nov 29, 2022 12:15:49   #
bdk Loc: Sanibel Fl.
 
Just this morning on Amazon they have a 16 TB SSD external drive listed for $109.00 with one year guarantee.
Cant beat that price. will store a LOT of pix on that.
My first PC I saved up and got the large hard drive for my first computer . INstead of the 20 meg drive it was 40 megabytes. ( imagine that 40 megs)

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