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World Population
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Nov 23, 2022 07:52:56   #
rlv567 Loc: Baguio City, Philippines
 
Canisdirus wrote:
No, not really. There is a ton of coin being made...but no progress at all...still going backwards and will continue.

No one is actually trying to solve the climate crisis...because there it is nothing to solve.

It's just a tool...that's all... a political tool forging an economic tool forging a world government.

World government is formed...crisis will fade to background.

There is only one goal...only one.

And every trick in the book is being utilized to make that ultimate power grab.
No, not really. There is a ton of coin being made... (show quote)


Exactly!!! -- Somebody who understands!!!

Loren - in Beautiful Baguio City

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Nov 23, 2022 08:01:21   #
rlv567 Loc: Baguio City, Philippines
 
Daryls wrote:
RE: "It seem that everyone wants to blame our climate woo's on energy companies, oil companies, but overlook the basic cause."

You are right there Robert. However, the basic cause of Climate Change is mostly the energy from the Sun, coupled with the Earth itself. To think that humans can change the weather (which the only item that makes up the climate - average weather over 30 years is the definition) can overpower the effects of the Sun and the Earth is simply arrogant on people's part. Earth's history shows much greater flucuations in its climate before humans inhabited the Earth. In fact, our climate has stabilized tremendously since the last Ice Age 12,000 years ago as homo sapiens increased their population here!

Daryl
RE: "It seem that everyone wants to blame our... (show quote)


And somebody else who understands. And the previous poster had it exactly correct - "climate change" actually is being caused by those who see an opportunity for a money grab, and even worse, by those who wish to control the world according to their distorted and totally unworkable desires!!! Other than that, there is no such thing as man-made climate change!!!!!

Loren - in Beautiful Baguio City

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Nov 23, 2022 08:06:48   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Robert Willson wrote:
It seem that everyone wants to blame our climate woo's on energy companies, oil companies, but overlook the basic cause.


That is the basic cause.

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Nov 23, 2022 08:39:42   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
Daryls wrote:
... To think that humans can change the weather (which the only item that makes up the climate - average weather over 30 years is the definition) can overpower the effects of the Sun and the Earth is simply arrogant on people's part. Earth's history shows much greater flucuations in its climate before humans inhabited the Earth. In fact, our climate has stabilized tremendously since the last Ice Age 12,000 years ago as homo sapiens increased their population here!

Daryl


I agree that the climate has undergone drastic changes over the age of the earth and that our climate has been remarkably stable over the history of man. However, past performance is no guarantee of future results, and even relatively small climactic changes can have large effects on us (a single volcano in the 1800s led to several years of cool weather globally, which had a strong impact on agriculture). Climactic change has the potential to destabilize the world even more than it is currently destabilized, so I believe that we have to try to control it. Or at least mitigate its effects slightly.

Yes, it is arrogant of us. But Man has a long history of arrogance. Let's use it to our advantage.

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Nov 23, 2022 08:55:23   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
Robert Willson wrote:
In the Wall Street Journal's 11/16 edition was a article that the UN announced the World Population has reached 8 Billion people. In 1927 the population was only 2 Billion and in 1950 had grown to 2.536 billion.

Do you think this has caused Climate Change? More demand for material things, Houses, Car, Fuel for cars and Heat.

It seem that everyone wants to blame our climate woo's on energy companies, oil companies, but overlook the basic cause.


The highways are sure a lot more crowded than they were just 15 years ago.

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Nov 23, 2022 10:09:09   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
I would increase some of those numbers. When I was a kid in the '40s, probably only half the local families had a car, and then it was one car per family. Now it's one car per person (new houses are increasingly being built with 3-car garages and even older houses have expanded the garage space). Passenger air flights have multiplied too. I never got onto a plane until the '50s, and then maybe twice a year. Now airline travel is really common (at least before Covid). More things are now shipped by air than way back then. Consumption is also up. So these numbers grow faster than the population.

A lot of people think that humans are driving climate change. Others think it is driven by natural processes. I think that climate change is occurring, no matter what the driver might be. And climate change is a threat that we should address now before things get REALLY out of hand. Humans have to slow the change in climactic conditions whether or not it's their fault.
I would increase some of those numbers. When I was... (show quote)


If it is not made by man and is a result of the sun becoming warmer or our orbit around the sun what should we do? Our sun at present is in a 11 year cycle of increased heat. I'm not sure but I believe that particular cycle is almost over.

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Nov 23, 2022 10:13:57   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
Drbobcameraguy wrote:
If it is not made by man and is a result of the sun becoming warmer or our orbit around the sun what should we do? Our sun at present is in a 11 year cycle of increased heat. I'm not sure but I believe that particular cycle is almost over.


Haven't been keeping track of the 11 year solar cycle but I believe it is currently at a minimum. That cycle doesn't affect our weather directly. It affects the ionosphere, where radio waves see the largest effect.

Whether climate change is directly attributable to man or not, we should try to address the problem and mitigate the effects.

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Nov 23, 2022 10:25:45   #
SteveR Loc: Michigan
 
Robert Willson wrote:
In the Wall Street Journal's 11/16 edition was a article that the UN announced the World Population has reached 8 Billion people. In 1927 the population was only 2 Billion and in 1950 had grown to 2.536 billion.

Do you think this has caused Climate Change? More demand for material things, Houses, Car, Fuel for cars and Heat.

It seem that everyone wants to blame our climate woo's on energy companies, oil companies, but overlook the basic cause.


Four times more methane. There's your answer.

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Nov 23, 2022 10:58:26   #
Reuss Griffiths Loc: Ravenna, Ohio
 
Two issues being discussed here; climate change and world population. Call me a denier, but I believe that climate change is a function of solar and planetary physics and as such is beyond our control. So whether we are in a warming phase or approaching a cooling phase, we need to call on humans' true superpower. Adaptation. We have become the dominant life-form on the planet by adapting to whatever conditions are presented to us. We migrated from tropical Africa to polar conditions in the north by adapting and we need to continue that process.

Regarding population growth, it is well understood that population growth is inversely proportional to the level of development for any culture. The more advanced a culture, the lower the birth rate. We need to stop the migration of people from 3rd world countries to first world countries and raising their birthrate. Instead give them the means (technology) to develop into first world cultures in their own countries and lower their birthrates as they progress. The advent of capitalism starting with the industrial revolution has done more elevate the standards of living for people than any other system ever! That means using fossil fuels until better sources of energy are developed that can compete on an even basis. Again, adaptation is our superpower.

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Nov 23, 2022 11:59:58   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Drbobcameraguy wrote:
If it is not made by man and is a result of the sun becoming warmer or our orbit around the sun what should we do? Our sun at present is in a 11 year cycle of increased heat. I'm not sure but I believe that particular cycle is almost over.

Then I suppose we need to do something about the sun's cycle.....

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Nov 23, 2022 13:10:06   #
JBuckley
 
I keep wondering, what was the earth's population before the "Flood"?

Consider that 71% of the earth's surface is covered by water. (Seas, rivers and lakes),
and 33% of the earth is desert sands, I am thinking that there is plenty of room
for at least double the population of today.
The biggest problem is not the pollution, but the fact that Human beings are not willing
to get along with each other.

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Nov 23, 2022 13:19:16   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Daryls wrote:
RE: "It seem that everyone wants to blame our climate woo's on energy companies, oil companies, but overlook the basic cause."

You are right there Robert. However, the basic cause of Climate Change is mostly the energy from the Sun, coupled with the Earth itself. To think that humans can change the weather (which the only item that makes up the climate - average weather over 30 years is the definition) can overpower the effects of the Sun and the Earth is simply arrogant on people's part. Earth's history shows much greater flucuations in its climate before humans inhabited the Earth. In fact, our climate has stabilized tremendously since the last Ice Age 12,000 years ago as homo sapiens increased their population here!

Daryl
RE: "It seem that everyone wants to blame our... (show quote)


No. The solar output from the sun has been measured accurately during the current period of climate change/warming, and it has not changed appreciably - it moves regularly in 11 year cycles (note that the amount of solar irradiance follows the sunspot cycle). The change in temperature, the decline of sea ice (which reflects energy) and the resulting change in sea level is undeniable (if you choose to believe the actual data)









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Nov 23, 2022 13:51:56   #
Reuss Griffiths Loc: Ravenna, Ohio
 
TriX wrote:
No. The solar output from the sun has been measured accurately during the current period of climate change/warming, and it has not changed appreciably - it moves regularly in 11 year cycles (note that the amount of solar irradiance follows the sunspot cycle). The change in temperature, the decline of sea ice (which reflects energy) and the resulting change in sea level is undeniable (if you choose to believe the actual data)


You cite a lot of impressive data that shows that the temperature on earth is rising. You dismiss the effect of solar radiation because studies have shown that it is relatively the same over some period of time. NASA, whose studies you reference also published papers on long-term climate change that is influenced by the elliptical nature of the earths' orbit and changes in the precession of earth's orbit.

By dismissing the behavior of the sun, you conclude that climate change is caused by increases in CO2. That's not a given either because higher CO2 levels in the past have not led to higher temperatures. Computer models that predict a dire future due to CO2 levels cannot predict the past from actual conditions. Ever wonder why?

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Nov 23, 2022 14:18:45   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Reuss Griffiths wrote:
You cite a lot of impressive data that shows that the temperature on earth is rising. You dismiss the effect of solar radiation because studies have shown that it is relatively the same over some period of time. NASA, whose studies you reference also published papers on long-term climate change that is influenced by the elliptical nature of the earths' orbit and changes in the precession of earth's orbit.

By dismissing the behavior of the sun, you conclude that climate change is caused by increases in CO2. That's not a given either because higher CO2 levels in the past have not led to higher temperatures. Computer models that predict a dire future due to CO2 levels cannot predict the past from actual conditions. Ever wonder why?
You cite a lot of impressive data that shows that ... (show quote)


Pretty conclusive evidence that CO2 is at an all time high and that it IS related to temperature change. Yes, there have been other events that have influenced climate change, but at present CO2 is the big driver. I encourage you to read both papers and then tell what you disagree with or present contradicting data. NASA, believes it, NOAA believes it, EPA believes, NCAR believes it, NCDC believes it, and most (not all) of the world’s climate scientists believe it, so I believe it.

I certainly agree with the original premise that increasing population is one factor that drives CO2 levels, but there are others as well.
https://climate.nasa.gov/climate_resources/24/graphic-the-relentless-rise-of-carbon-dioxide/
https://archive.epa.gov/climatechange/kids/documents/temp-and-co2.pdf







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Nov 23, 2022 14:21:31   #
bwana Loc: Bergen, Alberta, Canada
 
Robert Willson wrote:
In the Wall Street Journal's 11/16 edition was a article that the UN announced the World Population has reached 8 Billion people. In 1927 the population was only 2 Billion and in 1950 had grown to 2.536 billion.

Do you think this has caused Climate Change? More demand for material things, Houses, Car, Fuel for cars and Heat.

It seem that everyone wants to blame our climate woo's on energy companies, oil companies, but overlook the basic cause.

Unchecked population growth is the main driver of climate change. At some point humans will have to address the problem or mother nature will do the job AND mother nature has NO mercy! This is the main reason I simply cannot justify helping nations that will not help themselves; throw money at these nations for food and disaster relief and they simply have more children!

bwa

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