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Full frame lens on APC camera body
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Sep 1, 2022 10:14:32   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
selmslie wrote:
We already achieved as much sharpness and resolution as we ever needed at between 12 and 16MP. We can make any image as big as we can afford to print or display it starting with that resolution. You will probably never see the difference between APS-C and full frame unless you are obsessed with pixel peeping.

Once we reach 24MP we have gone past the point where resolution really means anything. And most lenses, full frame or crop, start running out of performance above that level unless you are prepared to spend obscene amounts of money.
We already achieved as much sharpness and resoluti... (show quote)


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Sep 1, 2022 10:21:07   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Canisdirus wrote:
Yes, it's a big conspiracy.

Engineering lenses to match sensors is a tin foil hat conspiracy...propagated by Big Pharma probably.

Full frame on a crop body is the same as ...cropping your FF image in post process.
Now we all know what happens when we crop...loss of detail...always...sometimes very little...sometimes quite a bit.
It depends on your camera...the lens...there will be loss though.

So Northrup was right. The answer is yes and no...it depends.

Engineering standpoint...crop lenses matched to crop body...better.
Every matched system ought to be better.

It depends on which lens...which body.
Yes, it's a big conspiracy. br br Engineering len... (show quote)


Cropping an image is not the same thing as using the center area of a FF lens on a crop body. In the first case (cropping), you are losing resolution (using fewer pixels of the image/sensor),and that is the reason for the “loss”. In the second case, you are still using all the pixels of the sensor, so no “loss”. In fact, as has already been pointed out, the image is likely to be better due to using just the center of the lens. Further, unless it’s a crop only system (such as Fuji), the highest performance lenses in a system such as Canon or Nikon are typically FF lenses. As for the idea that there is more illumination to the sensor from a crop lens, that’s a misunderstanding of illumination, which for a given aperture and subject/lighting is exactly the same between crop and FF.

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Sep 1, 2022 10:23:11   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Crop your goals to match your sensor.

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Sep 1, 2022 10:25:03   #
Canisdirus
 
TriX wrote:
Cropping an image is not the same thing as using the center area of a FF lens on a crop body. In the first case (cropping), you are losing resolution (using fewer pixels of the image/sensor),and that is the reason for the “loss”. In the second case, you are still using all the pixels of the sensor, so no “loss”. In fact, as has already been pointed out, the image is likely to be better due to using just the center of the lens. Further, unless it’s a crop only system (such as Fuji), the highest performance lenses in a system such as Canon or Nikon are typically FF lenses. As for the idea that there is more illumination to the sensor from a crop lens, that’s a misunderstanding of illumination, which for a given aperture and subject/lighting is exactly the same between crop and FF.
Cropping an image is not the same thing as using t... (show quote)


lol...no.

I can crop exactly like a crop sensor in post...it's the same thing.

The loss in megapixels is the same mathematically...because it's the same image size...same pixels being used.

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Sep 1, 2022 10:26:15   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Canisdirus wrote:
lol...no.

I can crop exactly like a crop sensor in post...it's the same thing.


That is NOT what you originally said and that I responded to. You said: “ Full frame on a crop body is the same as ...cropping your FF image in post process.”. It is NOT.

And as to your comment that matched systems always work better in audio and other things from an engineering perspective, that is pure BS. The best speaker manufacturers in the world don’t make turntables or amplifiers, and the only “matching involved is making sure the amplifier has the required power to drive the speakers to the required level without excessive distortion.

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Sep 1, 2022 10:28:13   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
TriX wrote:
Cropping an image is not the same thing as using the center area of a FF lens on a crop body. In the first case (cropping), you are losing resolution (using fewer pixels of the image/sensor),and that is the reason for the “loss”. In the second case, you are still using all the pixels of the sensor, so no “loss”. In fact, as has already been pointed out, the image is likely to be better due to using just the center of the lens. Further, unless it’s a crop only system (such as Fuji), the highest performance lenses in a system such as Canon or Nikon are typically FF lenses. As for the idea that there is more illumination to the sensor from a crop lens, that’s a misunderstanding of illumination, which for a given aperture and subject/lighting is exactly the same between crop and FF.
Cropping an image is not the same thing as using t... (show quote)


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Sep 1, 2022 10:28:33   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
junglejim1949 wrote:
I watch a video (Tony Northrop) who said, although you can use a full frame lens on a crop sensor camera, you will get better results using APC lenses with an APC camera. This is not what I have been hearing from other UHH members... You just get more reach.

Thanks for the clarification


Yes, I am afraid TN is using the word "better" very loosely !

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Sep 1, 2022 10:29:54   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
With the wrong camera, success is probably 99% luck. But with a full-frame camera, it's 100% the photographer.

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Sep 1, 2022 10:29:55   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Canisdirus wrote:
lol...no.

I can crop exactly like a crop sensor in post...it's the same thing.

...


Similar result, not the same thing.

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Sep 1, 2022 10:29:57   #
Canisdirus
 
TriX wrote:
That is NOT what you originally said and that I responded to. You said:


I said it's the same thing...you lose resolution if you crop.

Cropping is cropping...via sensor or post. Same pixels being tossed...same image.

Sensor crop...same thing. Which is saying ff lens on crop sensor...you get the same result.

Results vary by lens and body.

So it's still yes and no the the query.

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Sep 1, 2022 10:30:08   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
Canisdirus wrote:
lol...no.

I can crop exactly like a crop sensor in post...it's the same thing.

The loss in megapixels is the same mathematically...because it's the same image size...same pixels being used.


Only if it is the same pixel density ....

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Sep 1, 2022 10:31:01   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
imagemeister wrote:
Only if it is the same pixel density ....


Larger pixels are better than smaller pixels, even at the same density.

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Sep 1, 2022 10:31:20   #
Canisdirus
 
imagemeister wrote:
Only if it is the same pixel density ....


Well we are talking about the same body after all.

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Sep 1, 2022 10:35:09   #
Bultaco Loc: Aiken, SC
 
TriX wrote:
That is NOT what you originally said and that I responded to. You said: “ Full frame on a crop body is the same as ...cropping your FF image in post process.”. It is NOT.

And as to your comment that matched systems always work better in audio and other things from an engineering perspective, that is pure BS. The best speaker manufacturers in the world don’t make turntables or amplifiers.



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Sep 1, 2022 10:35:09   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Larger pixels are better than smaller pixels, even at the same density.


Larger pixels can never be at the same density ......

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