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Sharpness and Mirror Slap
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Dec 18, 2021 21:33:43   #
User ID
 
Architect1776 wrote:
I have very very seldom used the mirror up feature.
When used it is for very high magnification.
My SLRs and DSLRs seem to not have an issue of the mirror causing image degradation.

Some are very good. Not every mirror mechanism directly imitates a spring loaded rat trap. I’m impressed with the mechanism in the Canon 5DSR, and surely there are equally good systems found in other high end SLRs.

Some mirrors just slam but good ones have a sort of “lift, swoop, and park” mirror action.

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Dec 19, 2021 05:41:07   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
User ID wrote:
Some are very good. Not every mirror mechanism directly imitates a spring loaded rat trap. I’m impressed with the mechanism in the Canon 5DSR, and surely there are equally good systems found in other high end SLRs.

Some mirrors just slam but good ones have a sort of “lift, swoop, and park” mirror action.


Canon ever since the FTb has had the damping system for mirrors (50+ years). So your 5DSR will be very highly evolved as you know.

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Dec 20, 2021 17:33:19   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
I've found that at a high-enough shutter speed, the influence of mirror-slap ends.

I once went to extremes in this matter of the effect of electro-mechanical operation of the camera on image sharpness.

I mounted my camera on a tripod with a five-pound sandbag mounted from a hook just under where the camera mounts.

I mounted a bubble level in the hotshoe. I locked up the mirror and released the shutter with a wireless remote.

The release of the mirror induced a slight movement from its slap, a motion visible in the fluid of the bubble level.

Next, for this test, I released the shutter itself. At the same time, I observed no movement in the fluid of the bubble level.

This process brought about a noticeable increase in the sharpness of the image details.

Note that I disabled the vibration-reduction function in the lens.

Note further that two developments since have made obsolescent these measures for producing sharper images. One, camera-makers have introduced an image-stabilization function in the lens (for Canon). This function has reached the point that it compensates significantly for camera movement affecting the image.

Two, Adobe has introduced a filter called "Camera Shake Reduction." This filter detects blurred pixels and shifts the mage to remove this blur.

In closing, let me suggest that all who process their photographs may wish to learn how to apply the Photoshop filter known as "High Pass." It increases contrast along edges. One can vary the amount of contrast, effectively to avoid this contrast on, say, noise.
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Most of the currently made DSLR cameras that I have recently do not suffer from excessive mirror slaps. I do not have experience with every camera on the market but most of the digital Nikon and Canan models I have used over the past 18 or 20 years did not exhibit this issue to an alarming extent. I am no camera engineer or repair expert, but it seems the engineers have provided sufficient buffering of internal vibration.

I do recall, that my old and beaten-up Nikon F began to sound like a Model T Forn that needed a tuneup and slapped like a defective fan belt toward the end of its existence.

Even in the olden days, many of the better medium format SLR operated smoothly enough. Hasselblads, considering the size of the mirror and the complexity of the mechanism, were pretty good. Someof the less costly Japanese and Russian models would practically jump off the table when the shutters were released.

The new camera is not nearly as problematic in that respect, but old habits die hard and especially at slower shutter speeds, I use a sturdy tripod whenever it is practical and reflexively lock up the mirror before making the exposure. I still pref a cable or remote real for slower shutter speeds and remember the basic concept of not POKING at the shutter release on handheld shots.

It is something kinda ironic that some folks will go out and purchase the sharpest possible lenses and bodies with enormous megapixel counts and yet ignore or for some of the basics of supporting the camera, releasing the shutter, and managing the mirror issue. Sometimes it is no wonder- some shooters are so preoccupied with the back-button operation and all the control dials and sliders that they can't concentrate on someof the basics. To me, someof the cameras look like the instrument panel on the flight deck of a jet aircraft- too much stuff to mess with folks forget to "get a grip"!
Most of the currently made DSLR cameras that I hav... (show quote)

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Dec 20, 2021 19:30:02   #
User ID
 
anotherview wrote:
I've found that at a high-enough shutter speed, the influence of mirror-slap ends.

I once went to extremes in this matter of the effect of electro-mechanical operation of the camera on image sharpness.

I mounted my camera on a tripod with a five-pound sandbag mounted from a hook just under where the camera mounts.

I mounted a bubble level in the hotshoe. I locked up the mirror and released the shutter with a wireless remote.

The release of the mirror induced a slight movement from its slap, a motion visible in the fluid of the bubble level.

Next, for this test, I released the shutter itself. At the same time, I observed no movement in the fluid of the bubble level.

This process brought about a noticeable increase in the sharpness of the image details.

Note that I disabled the vibration-reduction function in the lens.

Note further that two developments since have made obsolescent these measures for producing sharper images. One, camera-makers have introduced an image-stabilization function in the lens (for Canon). This function has reached the point that it compensates significantly for camera movement affecting the image.

Two, Adobe has introduced a filter called "Camera Shake Reduction." This filter detects blurred pixels and shifts the mage to remove this blur.

In closing, let me suggest that all who process their photographs may wish to learn how to apply the Photoshop filter known as "High Pass." It increases contrast along edges. One can vary the amount of contrast, effectively to avoid this contrast on, say, noise.
I've found that at a high-enough shutter speed, th... (show quote)


I’m not seeing where your bubble motion observation involved using only the “bulb” shutter setting. Therefor I find no value in your report. OTOH, maybe you neglected to mention it.

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Dec 20, 2021 20:22:12   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
anotherview wrote:
I've found that at a high-enough shutter speed, the influence of mirror-slap ends...


In your experiment, did you find out what shutter speed is high enough? It would help if you mentioned that.

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Dec 22, 2021 00:07:46   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
I did not use the Bulb setting in my test.

Yes, I could have given a shutter speed for the mirror lockup test. Wrongly, I assumed the shooter would set the shutter speed called for by the situation.
User ID wrote:
I’m not seeing where your bubble motion observation involved using only the “bulb” shutter setting. Therefor I find no value in your report. OTOH, maybe you neglected to mention it.

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Dec 22, 2021 08:39:16   #
User ID
 
anotherview wrote:
I did not use the Bulb setting in my test.
.....................

When seeing the bubble disturbed as the exposure is made, you don’t know if the disturbance had begun before the shutter opened or only after it closed.

If you set the shutter to “Bulb” you can visually determine if the bubble jiggles before the actual exposure is recording, or only after it’s finished.

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Dec 22, 2021 08:58:07   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
Mirror lockup removes its action as an influence on the sharpness of the image.

Observe the fluid in the bubble level with and without mirror lockup. No bubble level fluid motion occurs with the mirror locked up.
User ID wrote:
When seeing the bubble disturbed as the exposure is made, you don’t know if the disturbance had begun before the shutter opened or only after it closed.

If you set the shutter to “Bulb” you can visually determine if the bubble jiggles before the actual exposure is recording, or only after it’s finished.

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Dec 22, 2021 10:29:19   #
charles tabb Loc: Richmond VA.
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
Abstract

A study of the effect of mirror slap on the sharpness of images shows that (not a surprise) the use of a solid foundation for a camera is an important element in the generation of sharp images. The study was performed in order to quantify the effect. A series of tests were performed to see what the effect of the internal motions of elements in a camera would have on the sharpness of edges in the resulting image. The results indicate that the sharpness can be decreased by a factor of around two if the camera is not solidly constrained.

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/user-page?upnum=3089
b Abstract /b br br A study of the effect of mi... (show quote)


I have a older SLR camera and don't have to worry about mirror slap.
I have a Sony a99II. When I take a picture my mirror never moves.
I thought I'de just throw this in for grins and giggles.

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