In Which Group Are You?
Nov 27, 2021 16:03:44 #
RichKenn
Loc: Merritt Island, FL
Group 2 but not because I am "advanced" but rather because I have purchased my last piece of equipment and am focusing on technique. All the equipment sold by the major manufacturers is good but technique varies all over the map. Any camera sold by the majors is capable of excellent photographs in the right hands.
Nov 27, 2021 16:06:51 #
Retina wrote:
It strikes me as self-empowering to create arbitrary groups and then insist that people must belong in one or the other. (Someone else will eventually do that once and for all.) But I suppose it is fun to argue.
I'd gladly take a painting done by either
💎🏆💎
Nov 27, 2021 16:20:52 #
User ID wrote:
I focus on the entertainment. You only live once, approximately anywho. Let’s guess that 80 to 90% purport to be in group 2. That means that the previous 3,000++ pages of this section mostly magically wrote themselves. Uh huh.
Lol great đź‘Ťđź‘Ťđź‘Ťđź‘Ťđź‘Ťđź‘Ť
Nov 27, 2021 16:55:42 #
rmalarz wrote:
I recently watched an interview with a professional photographer. Unfortunately, I didn't note who it was but my money would be placed on Daniel Milnor. The statement was made that beginners and beginning amateurs tend to focus on/discuss equipment. Advanced amateurs and professionals tend to focus on concepts/techniques. So, as the question was posed in the title, in which group are you?
--Bob
--Bob
This is a question/subject that cannot be truly answered easily. To categorize photographers as amateur or professional based on what they discuss, is simply impossible. This discussion has gone on for seven pages and will probably go on for seven more and beyond, unless admin stops it. '
Nov 27, 2021 17:42:16 #
An amateur will tend to believe hard work is what brings good luck and success. Professional photographers know the secret is a full-frame camera.
Nov 27, 2021 17:55:45 #
CHG_CANON wrote:
An amateur will tend to believe hard work is what brings good luck and success. Professional photographers know the secret is a full-frame camera.
Oh boy that's gonna confuse a lot of people.
Nov 27, 2021 17:58:27 #
wdross
Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
rmalarz wrote:
I recently watched an interview with a professional photographer. Unfortunately, I didn't note who it was but my money would be placed on Daniel Milnor. The statement was made that beginners and beginning amateurs tend to focus on/discuss equipment. Advanced amateurs and professionals tend to focus on concepts/techniques. So, as the question was posed in the title, in which group are you?
--Bob
--Bob
Both groups depending who is in the group and what is being discussed. If one is in a group of beginning photographers, the talk tends to be equipment and some techniques. If one is in an advanced amateur and professional group, the subjects do tend more towards setting up shots and more technical subjects.
Equipment is required to get the shots. Therefore, beginning photo are trying to get equipment to get the shots. Technical issues are sought when they know they have enough equipment for the shot and the shot did not come out the way they expected.
Most advanced and professional photographers already have the equipment or know how to do with the equipment they have. Therefore, the talk becomes more technical and techniques and not some much equipment.
Nov 27, 2021 18:01:50 #
PhotogHobbyist wrote:
... and will probably go on for seven more and beyond, unless admin stops it. '
Why would he?
Maybe you want to?
Nov 27, 2021 18:05:04 #
rmalarz wrote:
I recently watched an interview with a professional photographer. Unfortunately, I didn't note who it was but my money would be placed on Daniel Milnor. The statement was made that beginners and beginning amateurs tend to focus on/discuss equipment. Advanced amateurs and professionals tend to focus on concepts/techniques. So, as the question was posed in the title, in which group are you?
--Bob
--Bob
Non-binary - that's me!
I discuss all topics, including but not limited to - equipment, trends, concepts, technique, history, the existential nature of photography, photography as documentation, photography as creative expression, etc etc etc. I question the notion that there are only two groups and one can be in one or the other but not both - which this post seems to be implying. . .
Nov 27, 2021 18:28:03 #
PhotogHobbyist wrote:
This is a question/subject that cannot be truly answered easily. To categorize photographers as amateur or professional based on what they discuss, is simply impossible. This discussion has gone on for seven pages and will probably go on for seven more and beyond, unless admin stops it. '
You say: "To categorize photographers as amateur or professional based on what they discuss, is simply impossible."
True, but nobody is trying to do that. The categories are already well established. The question is, do members in these two groups conform to the behaviour pattern mentioned by the OP.
Nov 27, 2021 18:55:06 #
Here is a long answer to your thoughtful question, that has meaning to me. I have to say that I am a combination of both. Below is an article I wrote for a publication. It is a true story about my experience with the world famous artist Henry Moore and his influence on my life. For those of you who read the entire article, thank you. Comments are very welcome. Mastering one's vocabulary, (or tools) in my opinion, is when craft turns to art. Photography is not exempt from the concepts herein.
"Mastering One’s Vocabulary"
I am certain that most of us have had an epiphany or two, as well as some important life lessons that have impacted the way we think and operate. Not all of them come from within, and some of us who have had great mentors can pay homage to those who have had a positive impact on our lives. I would like to share with you one lesson that I found to be one of the most impactful and meaningful ones that I carry with me to this day. Before I do this, I would like to explain why I thought to put this to paper. I was in a deep discussion with a friend/coach, who was exploring me, to find out how best to help me define my personal process. During this conversation, I recounted an important personal experience. She asked me to memorialize it in writing so she could better understand my message. I found that the act of writing about this concept turned out to be a truly valuable exercise.
The words herein are my words describing my memory and interpretation of the conversation after forty-one years of rumination, contemplation and maturation that took place when I was twenty years old. I remember the heart of the conversation but not the exact words. I have taken some poetic license in the conveyance of these concepts, but none of it is fiction.
Henry Moore was one of the most successful, influential, critically acclaimed, and highest paid artists of all time. His work included both two and three dimensional creations. My Father and I had the fortuitous opportunity to meet and spend some time with him at his home and studio in Much Hadham, England in 1979.
Our visit turned out to be more than just a tour of a world famous artist’s studio. Henry Moore spoke with me extensively about my then focus in metalsmithing. I was self-taught, had a beautiful shop (thanks to my Father, who was an industrial auctioneer!) and then attended some pretty high end schools, and was open to anyone who could impart any additional wisdom on the subject material. In one afternoon, he cemented a concept that would remain with me for life. This most memorable and important lesson was that that it is imperative to master one’s vocabulary in order to be able to convey one’s message the way in which it is intended. He defined a true master as one who is not hampered, hindered or impaired in the expression of his or her message through a lack of vocabulary, no matter what the medium is. He said that we need to master our vocabulary in order to accurately control the expression of a point, feeling, or concept in all forms of communications, whether they be spoken, written or performed in word, music, dance and theater, crafted in two and three dimensional art, rather than the creator being controlled by the chosen medium. Once we master our vocabulary, we transcend from an amateur to a master.
His first cited example to demonstrate this point was that in order to create his vision in three dimensional space as a sculptor, he had to master the use of his mallet and chisels to carve away only very specific material from a solid block of stone in a controlled fashion. In the case of clay and bronze, an additive process, he had to do the same, only in reverse. As the master, he owned the control of the materials and carving tools to convey his vision, rather than being controlled by the materials and tools to an uncontrolled outcome.
He used another readily understood example of the author who conveys concepts by stringing particular words and punctuation together in order to convey a particular message. If your vocabulary is 6,000 words, a period and a question mark, your ability to communicate your thoughts and feeling will be different than if you have a 60,000 word vocabulary and also understand the impact of the semicolon and exclamation point.
I eventually joined my Father in his auction business. Becoming an auctioneer, I found quite quickly that we have our own vocabulary, some idiomatic and some universal. On the surface, words like rack-up, lot catalogue, BB and BP, proxy bid, bid protection, hammer price and “as-Is” are commonplace universal auction words. However, there is a deeper “vocabulary” used by our industry. I am referring to the HOW we do what we do, the instinctual understanding of our everyday activities and approach to a “deal”. How we each know how to walk a deal, rack it up and then determine the best way to sell the given assets through an onsite, online, webcast auction or negotiated sale. All sales must be supported by an effective marketing campaign and site set up, or “lotting”, followed by the most important aspect, how the sale is conducted. Seasoned auctioneers have an ability to conduct a live auction sale to a crowd of as few as a few, or a crowd of thousands. We all prefer the latter. Understanding the specificity of the assets, the marketplace and how best to offer them in predetermined sequenced lots providing optimized results by maintaining flexibility for the nimble auctioneer to satisfy the desires of the buyers.
To us old guys, the live outcry auction, is unfortunately becoming less frequently used in favor of the online timed event. However, one of the most important skills a live auctioneer must possess is how to conduct a live auction sale, to a crowd in a room, or a computer screen connected to the internet. A live auctioneer must be able to connect with the crowd and establish immediate credibility and rapport as a trusted referee and speak with clarity. A live auctioneer must also possess an understanding of the assets, the ability to connect to the bidders needs and their emotional state. A live auctioneer must be able to keep the sale moving through a sensitivity to the energy in the room, protect the estate and maximize the return. It takes massive amounts of sustained energy, focus and concentration to conduct a live sale, however, for me, I found the thrill of the sale acted as the alternator in a car, generating more energy than I consumed. A live auctioneer who becomes a master, internalizes all of these traits into an instinctual response to become one with the center stage activity of an auction sale.
Even though we are in the same industry, we each have a unique set of messages and our own way of communicating them. We must truly master our own vocabulary in order to be able to express ourselves uniquely and effectively. This is why and how personal differentiation has become the underpinning characteristic I find so important.
Each auction company and auctioneer has developed its own persona based on its own vocabulary within the life cycle of the auction process. From the development of a “vertical” discipline, the initial introductory call, to the inspection, crafting and presenting the proposal, contract negotiations, site preparation, marketing, conduct of sale and buyer interaction, collections, site clearance and final reporting and remittance.
In our pursuit to become a master in our field, we each have our own styled vocabulary that defines us. We each hopefully will master our own chosen medium to transcend to become a master by not being limited by our vocabulary, or our language, that prevents us from expressing the exact message that we want to convey.
RL
"Mastering One’s Vocabulary"
I am certain that most of us have had an epiphany or two, as well as some important life lessons that have impacted the way we think and operate. Not all of them come from within, and some of us who have had great mentors can pay homage to those who have had a positive impact on our lives. I would like to share with you one lesson that I found to be one of the most impactful and meaningful ones that I carry with me to this day. Before I do this, I would like to explain why I thought to put this to paper. I was in a deep discussion with a friend/coach, who was exploring me, to find out how best to help me define my personal process. During this conversation, I recounted an important personal experience. She asked me to memorialize it in writing so she could better understand my message. I found that the act of writing about this concept turned out to be a truly valuable exercise.
The words herein are my words describing my memory and interpretation of the conversation after forty-one years of rumination, contemplation and maturation that took place when I was twenty years old. I remember the heart of the conversation but not the exact words. I have taken some poetic license in the conveyance of these concepts, but none of it is fiction.
Henry Moore was one of the most successful, influential, critically acclaimed, and highest paid artists of all time. His work included both two and three dimensional creations. My Father and I had the fortuitous opportunity to meet and spend some time with him at his home and studio in Much Hadham, England in 1979.
Our visit turned out to be more than just a tour of a world famous artist’s studio. Henry Moore spoke with me extensively about my then focus in metalsmithing. I was self-taught, had a beautiful shop (thanks to my Father, who was an industrial auctioneer!) and then attended some pretty high end schools, and was open to anyone who could impart any additional wisdom on the subject material. In one afternoon, he cemented a concept that would remain with me for life. This most memorable and important lesson was that that it is imperative to master one’s vocabulary in order to be able to convey one’s message the way in which it is intended. He defined a true master as one who is not hampered, hindered or impaired in the expression of his or her message through a lack of vocabulary, no matter what the medium is. He said that we need to master our vocabulary in order to accurately control the expression of a point, feeling, or concept in all forms of communications, whether they be spoken, written or performed in word, music, dance and theater, crafted in two and three dimensional art, rather than the creator being controlled by the chosen medium. Once we master our vocabulary, we transcend from an amateur to a master.
His first cited example to demonstrate this point was that in order to create his vision in three dimensional space as a sculptor, he had to master the use of his mallet and chisels to carve away only very specific material from a solid block of stone in a controlled fashion. In the case of clay and bronze, an additive process, he had to do the same, only in reverse. As the master, he owned the control of the materials and carving tools to convey his vision, rather than being controlled by the materials and tools to an uncontrolled outcome.
He used another readily understood example of the author who conveys concepts by stringing particular words and punctuation together in order to convey a particular message. If your vocabulary is 6,000 words, a period and a question mark, your ability to communicate your thoughts and feeling will be different than if you have a 60,000 word vocabulary and also understand the impact of the semicolon and exclamation point.
I eventually joined my Father in his auction business. Becoming an auctioneer, I found quite quickly that we have our own vocabulary, some idiomatic and some universal. On the surface, words like rack-up, lot catalogue, BB and BP, proxy bid, bid protection, hammer price and “as-Is” are commonplace universal auction words. However, there is a deeper “vocabulary” used by our industry. I am referring to the HOW we do what we do, the instinctual understanding of our everyday activities and approach to a “deal”. How we each know how to walk a deal, rack it up and then determine the best way to sell the given assets through an onsite, online, webcast auction or negotiated sale. All sales must be supported by an effective marketing campaign and site set up, or “lotting”, followed by the most important aspect, how the sale is conducted. Seasoned auctioneers have an ability to conduct a live auction sale to a crowd of as few as a few, or a crowd of thousands. We all prefer the latter. Understanding the specificity of the assets, the marketplace and how best to offer them in predetermined sequenced lots providing optimized results by maintaining flexibility for the nimble auctioneer to satisfy the desires of the buyers.
To us old guys, the live outcry auction, is unfortunately becoming less frequently used in favor of the online timed event. However, one of the most important skills a live auctioneer must possess is how to conduct a live auction sale, to a crowd in a room, or a computer screen connected to the internet. A live auctioneer must be able to connect with the crowd and establish immediate credibility and rapport as a trusted referee and speak with clarity. A live auctioneer must also possess an understanding of the assets, the ability to connect to the bidders needs and their emotional state. A live auctioneer must be able to keep the sale moving through a sensitivity to the energy in the room, protect the estate and maximize the return. It takes massive amounts of sustained energy, focus and concentration to conduct a live sale, however, for me, I found the thrill of the sale acted as the alternator in a car, generating more energy than I consumed. A live auctioneer who becomes a master, internalizes all of these traits into an instinctual response to become one with the center stage activity of an auction sale.
Even though we are in the same industry, we each have a unique set of messages and our own way of communicating them. We must truly master our own vocabulary in order to be able to express ourselves uniquely and effectively. This is why and how personal differentiation has become the underpinning characteristic I find so important.
Each auction company and auctioneer has developed its own persona based on its own vocabulary within the life cycle of the auction process. From the development of a “vertical” discipline, the initial introductory call, to the inspection, crafting and presenting the proposal, contract negotiations, site preparation, marketing, conduct of sale and buyer interaction, collections, site clearance and final reporting and remittance.
In our pursuit to become a master in our field, we each have our own styled vocabulary that defines us. We each hopefully will master our own chosen medium to transcend to become a master by not being limited by our vocabulary, or our language, that prevents us from expressing the exact message that we want to convey.
RL
Nov 27, 2021 19:09:18 #
Nov 27, 2021 19:24:15 #
Longshadow wrote:
So glad I just take pitchers {sic}......
I have a long history of ordering Pitchers, preferably IPA.
Nov 27, 2021 19:27:46 #
quixdraw wrote:
I have a long history of ordering Pitchers, preferably IPA.
Nov 27, 2021 20:09:35 #
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