Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
In partial defense of protective filters
Page <prev 2 of 6 next> last>>
Nov 18, 2021 14:53:02   #
rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
 
luvmypets wrote:
I rarely remove the protective filter for a shot and since I am going to leave it on I would rather have a quality piece of glass that won't lessen the quality of my shot. (not that a low cost one would interfere with image quality but just in case) I have never had to replace a protective filter but in the event I do, I will have had years of protection from it so it will have paid for itself especially if the front element is undamaged.


I assume you don't shoot in sand storms and the like.

Reply
Nov 18, 2021 15:10:35   #
Chicago312 Loc: Western suburb, Chicago
 
lamiaceae wrote:
I use both lens hoods and protective filters. Protective filters are less needed for my longer lenses. But I still do not want finger smudges on my long lenses when the hood is in storage position or off altogether. More importantly, I have many shorter lenses, normal and wide angle that use very shallow lens hoods, these hoods to not protect the lens from dirty fingers, sticks, rocks, etc. I try to avoid ever having to clean the elements of my lenses beyond dusting off with a brush. I try to avoid using solvents and lens cloths. So I keep high quality B&W or similar protective filters on all my lenses. Shallow hoods protect only for their intended use, possibly stray light and flare.
I use both lens hoods and protective filters. Pro... (show quote)


Likewise... I clean the front element when I first acquire a lens, and then a UV filter goes on. Filters stay on 24/7. Lens hoods for protection and preventing flares/stray light.
No one has ever complained that my photos were ruined because of a filter or hood.

Reply
Nov 18, 2021 15:10:48   #
luvmypets Loc: Born & raised Texan living in Fayetteville NC
 
rook2c4 wrote:
I assume you don't shoot in sand storms and the like.


You assume correctly.

Reply
 
 
Nov 18, 2021 15:14:42   #
Sidwalkastronomy Loc: New Jersey Shore
 
Chicago312 wrote:
Likewise... I clean the front element when I first acquire a lens, and then a UV filter goes on. Filters stay on 24/7. Lens hoods for protection and preventing flares/stray light.
No one has ever complained that my photos were ruined because of a filter or hood.

Why would you clean a new lens?
I've always heard to clean a lens as little as possible to not interfere with the thin microcoatings

Reply
Nov 18, 2021 15:16:02   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
quixdraw wrote:
Ain't going to be changing many / any minds. Folks are going to do as they will, and fortunately can!


I recognize that. I did not do this to change minds, but to spread information. Also to polish my python programming proficiency. The programs and techniques I developed will be useful in other image analysis efforts so be prepared to hear from me again.

Reply
Nov 18, 2021 15:27:02   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
rook2c4 wrote:
For such situations, I certainly wouldn't want to have an expensive filter on my lens. It would be a shame to have to throw away a $50 (or more) filter after a single use because it got all scratched up or chipped. Personally, I avoid shooting under those conditions. As a hobbyist, I don't really need to use my camera equipment when I feel there is possible risk of damage.


It's a good thing that my study showed that a plain piece of window glass did not show any significant increase in the edge widths. Maybe you can consider that as a lens protector.

I should point out that window glass has undergone several improvements over the last couple centuries. Reealy old glass looks like the bottom of a bottle since it was probably blown, then cut. Glass from the 1800s to maybe mid 1900s show variations in thickness that can be seen to affect images. My house was built in 1960 and most of the windows show those variations. Moving your head back and forth will result in clear variations of the scene outside (or inside). New processes were developed that made glass quite flat and those effects do not show now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Float_glass

The piece of window glass I used in the study was purchased at a local hardware store from their scrap barrel, so it was probably float glass. My house has storm windows that do not show the variations I see in the smaller windows, so either they came from a different source or were added later than 1960.

Reply
Nov 18, 2021 15:27:51   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
I recognize that. I did not do this to change minds, but to spread information. Also to polish my python programming proficiency. The programs and techniques I developed will be useful in other image analysis efforts so be prepared to hear from me again.


Python is becoming a very popular language, and from what I read, deservedly so. I don’t do much programming anymore, leaving off with C and Visual Basic, so I need to learn Python.

Reply
 
 
Nov 18, 2021 15:36:21   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
luvmypets wrote:
... This may help those that are on the fence about protective filters. I have them on my lenses but not extremely tightened so if I feel the need to take it off for a shot I simply leave the lens cap on and unscrew them as a unit. When finished I screw them back on being careful not to over tighten. As a precaution, I purchased a filter removal tool and have only used it once...


I would say that taking your filters off and replacing them after a shot is more likely to damage either the filter or the lens by wearing or cross-threading the filter threads.

OTOH, stacking filters is probably not a good idea, particularly for a wide angle lens because it can cause vignetting (although light vignetting can be corrected in post).

If you do a lot of moving filters on and off your lens, you might want to look into a magnetic filter holder. I have never used one but I would think that since lenses and filters are generally made from aluminium, the magnetic holder would come in two parts: one magnet on your camera and one made from a ferromagnetic material that attaches to the filter. Then you just stick the filter on magnetically and remove it with your fingers. You would need the filter part for each filter you have. One advantage of this system is that you can get a large filter and use it on any lens as long as you can get the magnet part to fit your lens. I have a bunch of lenses and they take 62mm, 68mm, 72mm, 77mm, 82mm, and 95mm filters. Would be nice to only need one size filter (although it would have to be the largest one [and therefore the most expensive]).

Reply
Nov 18, 2021 15:37:35   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
TriX wrote:
Python is becoming a very popular language, and from what I read, deservedly so. I don’t do much programming anymore, leaving off with C and Visual Basic, so I need to learn Python.


I learned python when I turned 80. Still a beginner and make lots of beginner's errors. But I'm retired so I have the time to keep at it.

Reply
Nov 18, 2021 15:40:57   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
It's a good thing that my study showed that a plain piece of window glass did not show any significant increase in the edge widths. Maybe you can consider that as a lens protector.

I should point out that window glass has undergone several improvements over the last couple centuries. Reealy old glass looks like the bottom of a bottle since it was probably blown, then cut. Glass from the 1800s to maybe mid 1900s show variations in thickness that can be seen to affect images. My house was built in 1960 and most of the windows show those variations. Moving your head back and forth will result in clear variations of the scene outside (or inside). New processes were developed that made glass quite flat and those effects do not show now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Float_glass

The piece of window glass I used in the study was purchased at a local hardware store from their scrap barrel, so it was probably float glass. My house has storm windows that do not show the variations I see in the smaller windows, so either they came from a different source or were added later than 1960.
It's a good thing that my study showed that a plai... (show quote)


Having owned a hundred year old house and determined to keep it authentic, I archived a number of sheets of old glass that were once the front glass of theatre movie poster frames. Now that I live in a house built in the 60s. I’m keeping them when I frame old Maxfield Parrish and John Gould prints which I collect (I’m always on the lookout for good quality old Deco frames).

Reply
Nov 18, 2021 15:46:28   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
I am not a dedicated protective filter user. My lenses do not have filters on them for protection most of the time. I depend on a lens hood for protection from ordinary hazards such as having the camera bump into things. However there are situations where I use protective filters. Usually those situations involve environmental hazards such as salt spray, blowing sand, flying mud, or small hazardous things flying around (e.g. welding).

There are many instances in which someone claims that his lens was saved by something hitting the front of his lens and breaking the filter but not the lens. I believe that something hit their filter and broke it but I do not believe that their lens would have necessarily been broken in the same situation without the filter. After all, the front element of a lens is probably several millimeters thick while a filter is generally going to be a millimeter or less in thickness. This opinion is based on Steve Perry's post in which he performs extreme tests of things hitting lenses with and without filters. (I emphasize here that this is my opinion. YMMV).

On the other side of the coin there are a lot of people who claim that the excessive use of filters can affect image quality. While it is true that adding surfaces to an optical path increases the chance of reflections causing flare and such things, well made filters will have antireflective coatings which will reduce (not eliminate) this possibility.

So, being an experimentalist, I decided to do the experiment.

I did a study of edges to look at image sharpness. It was a limited study, using only one lens, but results to date show no significant effect of filters on the sharpness of an image. I also used a piece of regular window glass as one of the test filters. No significant effect was seen there. I concluded from this study that using a filter will not significantly affect the sharpness of objects in the image. The study did NOT include the possibility of flare or other effects. A PDF of the study is attached below.
I am not a dedicated protective filter user. My le... (show quote)


You don't have to defend the use of protective filters. Those who want to use them and believe there is no downside should just use them and be satisfied with their decision. Those who believe they add no value and/or negatively impact IQ should simply not use them. This is a topic that gets way over complicated. We are not discussing religion or politics.

Reply
 
 
Nov 18, 2021 15:47:55   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
It's not whether you get knocked down in life, it's whether you can afford to repair your broken lens.

Reply
Nov 18, 2021 16:54:28   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
mwsilvers wrote:
... We are not discussing religion or politics.


I take that as YOUR opinion.

Reply
Nov 18, 2021 17:05:02   #
User ID
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
I am not a dedicated protective filter user. My lenses do not have filters on them for protection most of the time. I depend on a lens hood for protection from ordinary hazards such as having the camera bump into things. However there are situations where I use protective filters. Usually those situations involve environmental hazards such as salt spray, blowing sand, flying mud, or small hazardous things flying around (e.g. welding).

There are many instances in which someone claims that his lens was saved by something hitting the front of his lens and breaking the filter but not the lens. I believe that something hit their filter and broke it but I do not believe that their lens would have necessarily been broken in the same situation without the filter. After all, the front element of a lens is probably several millimeters thick while a filter is generally going to be a millimeter or less in thickness. This opinion is based on Steve Perry's post in which he performs extreme tests of things hitting lenses with and without filters. (I emphasize here that this is my opinion. YMMV).

On the other side of the coin there are a lot of people who claim that the excessive use of filters can affect image quality. While it is true that adding surfaces to an optical path increases the chance of reflections causing flare and such things, well made filters will have antireflective coatings which will reduce (not eliminate) this possibility.

So, being an experimentalist, I decided to do the experiment.

I did a study of edges to look at image sharpness. It was a limited study, using only one lens, but results to date show no significant effect of filters on the sharpness of an image. I also used a piece of regular window glass as one of the test filters. No significant effect was seen there. I concluded from this study that using a filter will not significantly affect the sharpness of objects in the image. The study did NOT include the possibility of flare or other effects. A PDF of the study is attached below.
I am not a dedicated protective filter user. My le... (show quote)


(Download)

Reply
Nov 18, 2021 17:40:46   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
I take that as YOUR opinion.


Of course it is my opinion, as is almost everything written on this site. Even verifiable facts are often stretched to justify opinion here.

Reply
Page <prev 2 of 6 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.