thegrover Loc: Yorba Linda, CA

I am a Vietnam veteran and my wife was born and raised in Vietnam. When the Viet Cong took over she was sent to a "re-education camp." She later left all she had behind and escaped by boat. She came her with nothing, learned English, studied and earned her citizenship and as now a very successful business women.

Bangee5 Loc: Louisiana

thegrover, I hate to disagree with you but I can't let this pass. It was Republicans that got women the right to vote. It was Republicans that freed the slave. Republicans got African-Americans the right to vote. Democrates created Social Security . Republicans ended segregation. Republicans passed the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act. Democrates created Medicare. Democrates passed the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act. I like you Grover but check it out.

thegrover Loc: Yorba Linda, CA

I never mentioned Dems or Repubs. I said liberals.

PrairieSeasons Loc: Red River of the North

Then you'll have to to a better job of defining liberal. Right now the working definition of liberal seems to be someone that wants to control how others act, but is unwilling to have those rules apply to himself.

thegrover Loc: Yorba Linda, CA

The teahadist are the ones who want to control how people act. Teahadist the right wing tea baggers that want to take away civil liberties, invade the privacy of your bedroom, and degrade women. Progressive liberals what to insure your freedoms, it is the right that wants to control how you act.

PrairieSeasons Loc: Red River of the North

I am not familiar with the term teahadist, so can't respond to your assertion regarding them.

As far as tea party activists and liberal activists, you obviously don't understand either. Tea party activists want to LIMIT government and government intrusion. Progressive liberals, on the other hand, want to take your money and redistribute it to others.

thegrover Loc: Yorba Linda, CA

So Tea party activists wanting to LIMIT government and government intrusion would favor gay rights? Would support ending all the Bush wars. Allow SoCal air quality to go back to the thick blanket of smog we saw in the sixties by closing the EPA.
Allow women to make their own choices on contraception and abortion? Explain to me what government intrusions you favor limiting? Fire trucks showing up at your house when it is on fire. Making good on your social security checks. Intruding on moving you factory to China. Forcing you to take unemployment checks? Making you get health care?

PrairieSeasons Loc: Red River of the North

You seem to be mixing apples and oranges here, and I suspect from the nature of your reply that you have some kind of suppressed anger that's expressing itself.

Your very first sentence shows part of the liberal problem. That is the assertion of "gay rights" or "woman's rights" or another special categorization of people. A libertarian (which is the more traditional term for what is now called a tea party person) does not care either way about what a gay person does, but the gay person should not have "gay rights" that are any different from the rights of any other person.

There are two HUGE problems with the present liberal mindset. The first is that the liberals in government want bigger and more intrusive government, and the second is that they want to spend more money doing that than they have.

The end result is very predictable - tyranny and poverty. Tyranny imposed by the ruling elite and poverty for the rest of us.

Mac Loc: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia now Hernando Co. Fl.

And don't forget W who ran against McCain, Gore and Kerry.

Mac Loc: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia now Hernando Co. Fl.

I read that book, it was very enlightening.

Mac Loc: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia now Hernando Co. Fl.

I think your motto must be---when you're losing the argument, hide behind semantics.

thegrover Loc: Yorba Linda, CA

You got me. What works works, what does not work does not work, more of what does not work still does not work.

You have me in a chrono-synclastic infundibulum.

treehugger Loc: Eastern Idaho Highlands

I think what I am hearing is that unless a candidate has served in a combat role in the military, they should not be allowed hold public office, including the office of President of the United States. I am also hearing that Mormons, with a few exceptions, use their religious beliefs to side step military service. To be fare, would I be correct is assuming that Baptist’s, Catholics, Jews, et al: who did not serve in the military also should not hold public office, or do they get a pass?
Four brothers, three wars, all Mormon, all volunteers:
My oldest brother joined the Navy during WW2 and served in the South Pacific until his ship was damaged by a Kamikaze.
Second eldest joined the army and served in Europe as a combat medic.
Number three joined the Navy and served in Korea. He also retired as a Naval Captain after 30 Years service.
Brother #4 retired as a Chief Petty Officer after 20 Years service, which included two tours of duty in Viet Nam. Also, of his 6 children five served in the Navy, one (the only girl) served in the Army. All volunteers.
As can be expected, I am somewhat offended by the belief that Mormons do not serve. They Do!
Oh Ya! In case you are wondering, I retired from the Navy as a Chief Petty Officer after serving a bit over 20 years.

Our parents did not serve, so I guess that they can't understand the sacrifices being made by families either.

BW326 Loc: Boynton Beach, Florida

I got stuck in one of those once, and believe me, it's no fun.

sinatraman Loc: Vero Beach Florida, Earth,alpha quaudrant

There is something even more important then serving your country and that is SERVING GOD! I am not a mormon and find them to be in contradiction to Holy Scripture. However, I do respect them for their missonairy element, and for their philanthropy. The mission their young men and women go on, teaches them about other cultures, how to speak to people and the joy of sacrifice. Unlike other faiths at least the mormons walk the walk and not just talk the talk. Funny how the same people who had no problem with Hanoi Jane Fonda being photographed on a north vietnamesa anti aircraft gun, now have a problem with The Romneys not serving in a war the libs opposed anyways. Ah the sweet smell of hypocrisy. I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning! It reminds me of the Kennedy"s.