Does this make me a bad photographer?
Aug 7, 2021 22:30:47 #
cactuspic
Loc: Dallas, TX
Photolady2014 wrote:
Yes, that was never the intent. I wanted to hear what was needed to improve. The question was now that I know all the things that are needed in a photo to make it award winning, is it bad of me to still want to take a photo mid day with a bad background.
No, it is not. We take pictures for many reason. I recently took a picture of a bird in my magnolia tree that was far to small in the frame to keep, which I knew before I pressed the shutter button. I just wanted to identify my visitor. Artistic? No way! Other times, I have taken pictures to preserve memories, even though the background was less than stellar and the shadows were less than flattering. In both instances the photos accomplished what they were supposed to do. There are other reasons to shoot besides creating award winning images. So long as you know the difference, you're good. Then go put your heart, skill and all of your knowledge into making your award winning images.
Irwin
Aug 7, 2021 23:46:11 #
Orphoto
Loc: Oregon
That he was carping about the rule of thirds is a dead giveaway. You may cry, but only because you spent too much on him.
Aug 8, 2021 00:36:43 #
Let's not knock the teacher and let's not knock the student but let's simply apply some common sense.
First of all, when you complete a class, course workshop or seminar, you should go away feeling encouraged, challenged, and stimulated, not discouraged and defected or confused. You should be looking forward to trying out someof the new concepts, techniques and approaches you have learned- make a to-do list! You are no a computer, you're human and oftentimes all the ideas you are you are bombarded in a class with takes a while to sink in after the class is over!
Many folks do not take kindly to constructive criticism but sometimes, even in a great shot, there is some room for improvement. Take the criticism in stride and try to apply some of the "improvements" the next time you are out shooting or perhaps just recompose to alter the shot in editing and see for yourself it makes a difference to YOU! It may make a stronger statement about your subject. Don't consider criticism a bad review- look at it as a tip or multiple tips! It's like eating a strange or exotic food for the first time- try it you may like it!
Some of the things your teacher told you or the way you construed them seem a bit odd to me! How can you "place" a bird or any wild animal in a specific lighting pattern. You can if the bird or animal came from the taxidermist. Of course, shooting early or later in the day can provide more directional lighting so the trick is to recognizing the natural light and using it accordingly and sometimes that means shooting at a more advantageous time of day as per the LIGHTING.
As for SHADOWS. Where the is light there is SHADOW! If all your pictures have NO SHADOWS they will have no modelling, dimensionality, depth or texture. Google "CHIAROSCURO"- it's all about light and shadow in art. Sometimes, when shooting around noon-time, in bright sunlight, dense shadows may obscure important details and become distracting- consider flash fill to minimize or modify the vacant shadows with no detail.
When you shoot with more directional light- not just overhead sun, you get more control over light and shadow placement, better texture in coats and feathers, and more control over background management.
I have attended numerous classes, workshops and seminars. I have presented many workshops, classes, and seminars on a professional level. I can tell you this. When attending a class don't try to emulate everything the teacher does or completely change everythg you are doing. You do not want to become a clone of your instructor or have a nervous breakdown. If you sincerely feel that your teacher knows what he or she is doing or talking about- introduce the new techniques slowly and discover how they apply to YOUR vision.
A good teacher will give you the tools, know-how and encouragement to apply your own creativity and talent. Some teachers will give you specific concepts and techniques to apply. Others will just tell you about all their accomplishments and essentially teach you nothing. I have attended such classes but I did learn somethg, how not to conduct a seminar! So, at least my time and money were not a total loss!
Many folks want definite answers to the question ad go-to "rules". So, the teacher will set out some "rules" or very specific ways and means of doig stuff. Consider those the BASICS, the tools, the time-honoured ways and work from there on your own.
I have had several brilliant teachers, grandmasters, that had opposing concepts and methodologies to the same fields of work and subject matter. It did not drive me crazy- I just took what I thought applied to my work from each and walked away contented.
I have seen some very creative photographers, go to an intensive workshop, drop their own approaches and their work became stiff with a high level of SAMENESS. It's as if they joined a cult of "my way or the highway"- it's stifling! Don't do dat!
Experiment!!! Try cropping your lovely FOX picture so that the eyes are 1/3 down for the top of the frame- even if it cuts into his ears. Try a tilt and SEE if he's more impact or NOT. People ma such a fuss about SOOTC images- they are missing out on all the fun of cropping or editing an image just to try out various ideas. Up can always revert to the original status or you may come up with a prize-winning masterpiece!
Your teacher is applying PORTRAT techniques to wildlife imagery- it's INTERESTING! But please don't let all this drive you nuts. Your work is well on its way to top-quality. Have at it!
Listen, my dear OP! I do photography for a living and I live in a world of criticism. In the beginning, my critics were my parents, teachers, mentors and bosses. In the army, it was my drill instructor. In business, I have critics growing out of the walls- clients, art directors, my wife, my kids, my grandkids the janitor, my account and bank manager. Everybody is a "professor". Our cat gives me dirty looks! In the end, I am my own word critic. , Sometimes I look at what I have done and say UGH- I cuss and wonder what my brain was doing when I shot that! Then, the client loves it and insists that I sign it! UGH! Then he recommends me to someone else who wants the same thing- DOUBLE UGH!
As a teacher or instructor, I will offer some go-to methods because I know they work, and when the students get good results it's encouraging. But I always tell them to improvise, try other methods, experiment and grow. Remember I was/am training pros so if they are out on a job and become perplexed, they need a standard operating procedure to fall back on. When there is time and opportunity, do your own thing and develop your own style. If you are an advanced amateur or enthusiast, the HEAT is off so take it easy and stop worrying!
I hope this helps!
First of all, when you complete a class, course workshop or seminar, you should go away feeling encouraged, challenged, and stimulated, not discouraged and defected or confused. You should be looking forward to trying out someof the new concepts, techniques and approaches you have learned- make a to-do list! You are no a computer, you're human and oftentimes all the ideas you are you are bombarded in a class with takes a while to sink in after the class is over!
Many folks do not take kindly to constructive criticism but sometimes, even in a great shot, there is some room for improvement. Take the criticism in stride and try to apply some of the "improvements" the next time you are out shooting or perhaps just recompose to alter the shot in editing and see for yourself it makes a difference to YOU! It may make a stronger statement about your subject. Don't consider criticism a bad review- look at it as a tip or multiple tips! It's like eating a strange or exotic food for the first time- try it you may like it!
Some of the things your teacher told you or the way you construed them seem a bit odd to me! How can you "place" a bird or any wild animal in a specific lighting pattern. You can if the bird or animal came from the taxidermist. Of course, shooting early or later in the day can provide more directional lighting so the trick is to recognizing the natural light and using it accordingly and sometimes that means shooting at a more advantageous time of day as per the LIGHTING.
As for SHADOWS. Where the is light there is SHADOW! If all your pictures have NO SHADOWS they will have no modelling, dimensionality, depth or texture. Google "CHIAROSCURO"- it's all about light and shadow in art. Sometimes, when shooting around noon-time, in bright sunlight, dense shadows may obscure important details and become distracting- consider flash fill to minimize or modify the vacant shadows with no detail.
When you shoot with more directional light- not just overhead sun, you get more control over light and shadow placement, better texture in coats and feathers, and more control over background management.
I have attended numerous classes, workshops and seminars. I have presented many workshops, classes, and seminars on a professional level. I can tell you this. When attending a class don't try to emulate everything the teacher does or completely change everythg you are doing. You do not want to become a clone of your instructor or have a nervous breakdown. If you sincerely feel that your teacher knows what he or she is doing or talking about- introduce the new techniques slowly and discover how they apply to YOUR vision.
A good teacher will give you the tools, know-how and encouragement to apply your own creativity and talent. Some teachers will give you specific concepts and techniques to apply. Others will just tell you about all their accomplishments and essentially teach you nothing. I have attended such classes but I did learn somethg, how not to conduct a seminar! So, at least my time and money were not a total loss!
Many folks want definite answers to the question ad go-to "rules". So, the teacher will set out some "rules" or very specific ways and means of doig stuff. Consider those the BASICS, the tools, the time-honoured ways and work from there on your own.
I have had several brilliant teachers, grandmasters, that had opposing concepts and methodologies to the same fields of work and subject matter. It did not drive me crazy- I just took what I thought applied to my work from each and walked away contented.
I have seen some very creative photographers, go to an intensive workshop, drop their own approaches and their work became stiff with a high level of SAMENESS. It's as if they joined a cult of "my way or the highway"- it's stifling! Don't do dat!
Experiment!!! Try cropping your lovely FOX picture so that the eyes are 1/3 down for the top of the frame- even if it cuts into his ears. Try a tilt and SEE if he's more impact or NOT. People ma such a fuss about SOOTC images- they are missing out on all the fun of cropping or editing an image just to try out various ideas. Up can always revert to the original status or you may come up with a prize-winning masterpiece!
Your teacher is applying PORTRAT techniques to wildlife imagery- it's INTERESTING! But please don't let all this drive you nuts. Your work is well on its way to top-quality. Have at it!
Listen, my dear OP! I do photography for a living and I live in a world of criticism. In the beginning, my critics were my parents, teachers, mentors and bosses. In the army, it was my drill instructor. In business, I have critics growing out of the walls- clients, art directors, my wife, my kids, my grandkids the janitor, my account and bank manager. Everybody is a "professor". Our cat gives me dirty looks! In the end, I am my own word critic. , Sometimes I look at what I have done and say UGH- I cuss and wonder what my brain was doing when I shot that! Then, the client loves it and insists that I sign it! UGH! Then he recommends me to someone else who wants the same thing- DOUBLE UGH!
As a teacher or instructor, I will offer some go-to methods because I know they work, and when the students get good results it's encouraging. But I always tell them to improvise, try other methods, experiment and grow. Remember I was/am training pros so if they are out on a job and become perplexed, they need a standard operating procedure to fall back on. When there is time and opportunity, do your own thing and develop your own style. If you are an advanced amateur or enthusiast, the HEAT is off so take it easy and stop worrying!
I hope this helps!
Aug 8, 2021 01:17:33 #
wdross
Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
Photolady2014 wrote:
Thank you. I take things way to literally! I already know I will now make many of my photos better. I just felt like he was saying if it is not going to be something you would enter into a contest, don't eve press the shutter...
For him and his personality, that may be true. And business wise that may be true for him also. Just think of all the editing that pros do anyway. He may have that attitude just to lessen his editing. Just take his observations on your shooting and use them.
Everyone would like the recognition of a contest win.
Or a magazine front or spread. But that is not the only reason for shooting photographs. Neither is just earning money the only reason for photography.
I have won and nearly won. I have published in one of my company's magazines. Shot weddings and portraits. Been in clubs and professional organizations. Gone to seminars and classes. I have always tried to learn from all the phoytographrers I have met or learned under.
But my main drive for photography is to see life as it occurs before my camera and try to capture it. I will do the best I can, but I know there are other that can and will capture life better. Will I ever stop trying? Very likely when I am dead. Until then, it is take photos and keep learning.
Your photos are very good and you have learn a little more from your teacher. Go use what more you have learned and show us the results. I know I will enjoy what you will offer us as images of life.
Aug 8, 2021 05:27:43 #
cmc4214
Loc: S.W. Pennsylvania
Photolady2014 wrote:
In reading all the comments one thing that has helped is the thought that a photo does not have to be perfect to be a good photo. Yes he is a judge and they look for noise, shadows, leading lines, creamy background etc. but can a photo be too perfect to the point that it is not as pleasing?
I think so.!
Aug 8, 2021 06:05:48 #
Aug 8, 2021 06:18:19 #
quixdraw wrote:
Take a deep breath, forget nearly everything the "Distinguished Photographer" said. Two things, a big Cheese always has to be that, ego! Second if he can't find all sorts of things wrong, how can he get you to take more and better classes. There is no one standard or size that fits all. Choose things you found useful, toss the rest and move on. You take lots of photos that are very fine, you did before the class, and will continue to do so!
What he said, absolutely! Many of these so called photography instructors feel compelled to criticize because they are supposed to. Very few photographs have all of the elements perfectly aligned such as composition, lighting, exposure detail. When they do it's terrific, but it doesn't mean every photo has to be perfect!
Aug 8, 2021 06:46:27 #
Aug 8, 2021 06:58:57 #
Ednsb
Loc: Santa Barbara
I agree with the majority of positive comments. A good teacher uplifts, a poor one tears down. Ultimately it only matters that you like your images, I do.
If you intend to ‘compete’ in national contests the judges like your guide will nitpick to death and never agree with each other. Not a world I’m interested in. Recently, I took Lightroom and PhotoShop classes from a professional photographer and commercial retoucher. His tolerance for ‘mistakes’ was very low. I learned a lot but have zero interest in being as ocd as him but it’s his job and livelihood.
If you intend to ‘compete’ in national contests the judges like your guide will nitpick to death and never agree with each other. Not a world I’m interested in. Recently, I took Lightroom and PhotoShop classes from a professional photographer and commercial retoucher. His tolerance for ‘mistakes’ was very low. I learned a lot but have zero interest in being as ocd as him but it’s his job and livelihood.
Aug 8, 2021 06:59:07 #
To my poorly trained eye, he is applying lighting critiques/techniques usually found in studio work or location shots with artificial light, reflectors, and a crew. Your shots are of wildlife in natural settings with animals and the sun as your light source. Keep doing what you are doing your photos look fine.
Aug 8, 2021 07:02:19 #
tcthome
Loc: NJ
quixdraw wrote:
Take a deep breath, forget nearly everything the "Distinguished Photographer" said. Two things, a big Cheese always has to be that, ego! Second if he can't find all sorts of things wrong, how can he get you to take more and better classes. There is no one standard or size that fits all. Choose things you found useful, toss the rest and move on. You take lots of photos that are very fine, you did before the class, and will continue to do so!
I agree with quickdraw. Has to find something to say to do their job. With wildlife , it isn't always possible to get the best angle or back round while the sun is at a certain angle. If your subject comes back to the same spot all the time or you know where it will be, you could get there real early, get in your camo or blind & wait for the perfect shot but, it could take lots of time & many days returning to get it. Even the back round on the 1 shot that isn't blurred enough. True it could be a little smoother or creamier, but hey, wildlife photography is like that. You keep shooting to get the few or so keepers & if you et another later on that is better of a certain subject, feel free do delete the one that isn't as good after you get what is considered the perfect photo. Me myself, enjoy the photos you post here. A lot of people don't get to view the wildlife you see as much or never in person. Nothing wrong with pushing yourself to do better either. Happy shooting.Aug 8, 2021 07:07:03 #
An artist doesn't stop when they arrive, and they don't make excuses...
Aug 8, 2021 07:09:17 #
In fairness to the instructor - you were paying him to nitpick. Not many pics are perfect - not even in Nat Geo. We need to do the best we can. Sometimes the decision is a choice between faults - the viewer does not see the discarded ones. I do admire your pics - keep 'em coming.
Aug 8, 2021 07:21:51 #
E.L... Shapiro wrote:
Let's not knock the teacher, and let's not knock the student but let's apply some common sense.
First of all, when you complete a class, course workshop, or seminar, you should go away feeling encouraged, challenged, and stimulated, not discouraged and defected or confused. You should be looking forward to trying out some of the new concepts, techniques, and approaches you have learned- make a to-do list!
First of all, when you complete a class, course workshop, or seminar, you should go away feeling encouraged, challenged, and stimulated, not discouraged and defected or confused. You should be looking forward to trying out some of the new concepts, techniques, and approaches you have learned- make a to-do list!
I teach Undergrad Painting and adult workshops, and this is precisely the goal to nurture. Building and encouragement are the goals. I can always find something positive within an individual's work and explain why it works. I will also explain why other passages are problematic and give them the guidance needed to improve those passages.
Aug 8, 2021 07:22:03 #
Anyone can criticize anything. You can't take criticism so seriously, even from an award-winning whatever. There's a fine line between teaching and humiliating.
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