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Morality
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Jun 5, 2021 16:34:02   #
HOHIMER
 
Wallen:
"You can anything you want, as long as it does not hurt or annoy anyone, including yourself."

That must have been hard to do. Especially the, "...or annoy anyone...." part. No farts?

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Jun 5, 2021 17:12:53   #
chrissybabe Loc: New Zealand
 
There are at least two people on here now who either can't read or chronically mistype. There is a huge difference between morale and moral. Which one are you talking about ?
This is not being pedantic on my part. I just want to know what we are talking about.

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Jun 5, 2021 17:27:39   #
srt101fan
 
chrissybabe wrote:
There are at least two people on here now who either can't read or chronically mistype. There is a huge difference between morale and moral. Which one are you talking about ?
This is not being pedantic on my part. I just want to know what we are talking about.


The amoral or immoral behavior of a few can lead to low morale in a group.... 😕

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Jun 5, 2021 18:52:07   #
Wallen Loc: Middle Earth
 
HOHIMER wrote:
Wallen:
"You can anything you want, as long as it does not hurt or annoy anyone, including yourself."

That must have been hard to do. Especially the, "...or annoy anyone...." part. No farts?



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Jun 6, 2021 06:56:20   #
Stephan G
 
Rongnongno wrote:
"Le probleme avec la morale c'est que c'est toujours celle des autres."
"The problem with morality is that it is always someone else's"
(Leo Ferre)

Sounds wise but, is it?

We are raised within a society that gives us a set of parameters. This influences all our lives without question. The dilemma resides on how we accept it, modify it or reject it.

We always react to someone else's morale, but we do make our own. In that we are 'free' to the extent that we make our own decisions to accept or refuse that morality. Still, considering that we are influenced anyway, where is our true freedom?

I have no answer to questions like this. I just keep turning them in my head to understand better and possibly offer an answer.

I have none. (It was true in 2010, it is still true 11 years later)
"Le probleme avec la morale c'est que c'est t... (show quote)


What is the question? When you can formulate the question, you provide your answer.

The "true freedom" is that we choose. We have to make choices. We have to decide which direction to go using the best options we see. No matter the influence, the decision is still ours to make. Do we follow what we think is right or what someone else thinks is right. The best analogue is that life is like a Pachinko game. It is that little ball falling, hitting an obstruction, choosing a path around the obstruction, continuing down to the end which cannot be seen. But it is the choices we make along in which we do have "free will".

Bottom line, we have to develop our own definitions along the way. Such as for 'morale' in French and "morality" in English. There is a transliteration in there that needs to be considered.

Few practice retrospection, in which we review our actions and our choosing. The ultimate question is always, "Why?".

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Jun 6, 2021 06:58:42   #
Stephan G
 
HOHIMER wrote:
Wallen:
"You can anything you want, as long as it does not hurt or annoy anyone, including yourself."

That must have been hard to do. Especially the, "...or annoy anyone...." part. No farts?


Well , there are those mind farts.

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Jun 8, 2021 20:56:05   #
Mark Sturtevant Loc: Grand Blanc, MI
 
As is well pointed out, what is moral and amoral has shifted considerably over the centuries. You can read old articles, well supported by the general public, that justified slavery or restricted the vote. Interracial marriages were outlawed. How strange these seem today! I remember my mother telling me that when she decided to go back to work (as an elementary school teacher) after having me, my father fought with her tooth and nail. The neighbors stopped speaking to her.

We are in this age engaged in fierce debates over relatively new and emerging moral shifts. One is whether to allow transgendered persons to use the restroom that befits their identity, and I don't know where the dust will settle on that one.

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Jun 12, 2021 01:39:48   #
oregonfrank Loc: Astoria, Oregon
 
Rongnongno wrote:
"Le probleme avec la morale c'est que c'est toujours celle des autres."
"The problem with morality is that it is always someone else's"
(Leo Ferre)

Sounds wise but, is it?

We are raised within a society that gives us a set of parameters. This influences all our lives without question. The dilemma resides on how we accept it, modify it or reject it.

We always react to someone else's morale, but we do make our own. In that we are 'free' to the extent that we make our own decisions to accept or refuse that morality. Still, considering that we are influenced anyway, where is our true freedom?

I have no answer to questions like this. I just keep turning them in my head to understand better and possibly offer an answer.

I have none. (It was true in 2010, it is still true 11 years later)
"Le probleme avec la morale c'est que c'est t... (show quote)

Reply
Jun 12, 2021 07:58:44   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
Reno wrote:
"We always react to someone else's morale, but we do make our own. In that we are 'free' to the extent that we make our own decisions to accept or refuse that morality. Still, considering that we are influenced anyway, where is our true freedom?"

Morality is a human construct intended to facilitate a functional culture or society. Some parts of our cultural morality may not produce comfort with the innate character of different people. For close to 2,000 years the morality of our culture was strongly predicated on Christianity. That of course has changed, and people consider much moral they would have seen as immoral 150 years ago. If you're looking for a way to act, i.e. express your own sense of what is moral, without some type of external influence, you will not find it. In other words, freedom in a vacuum does not exist. If you violate some part of your cultural morality because it does not resonate with you, it will not be a free choice, because whatever it is will still have been influenced by thinking that was affected by something you read, experienced, or heard. Free will is an illusion, as difficult as this is to accept. 
"We always react to someone else's morale, bu... (show quote)


Freedom is honestly nothing left to lose. If you have anything at all you are a slave to it. So freedom as you say does not exist.

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Jun 12, 2021 08:00:20   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
Rongnongno wrote:
*ahem* This makes no sense if you really think about it. Kill before one kills you. Pushing this to an extreme.


So you would have others kill you because you are going to kill them? I'm confused.

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Jun 12, 2021 08:05:32   #
Canisdirus
 
Drbobcameraguy wrote:
So you would have others kill you because you are going to kill them? I'm confused.


He is pointing out the fallacy of the golden rule.

It's a piece of generally good advice...but not to a sociopath...or psychopath...or a paranoid...etc.

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Jun 12, 2021 09:29:50   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
Canisdirus wrote:
He is pointing out the fallacy of the golden rule.

It's a piece of generally good advice...but not to a sociopath...or psychopath...or a paranoid...etc.


Lol. Ok understood. Lol. As always there is an exception to every rule or advice. Now we have the root of the problem. Exceptions. How far do we go with them? Do we infringe the rights of many for the rights of a few? If so what is the number where it is not worth the exception? If 2 people are allergic to steak do we ban steak? This is were it turns into a MAJOR MESS. As evidenced by today's society even so far as medication. Example Quinine Sulfate. Removed from the shelves because a portion of the population had I'll effects. My wife needed it terribly for her medical condition. Worked very well and was inexpensive. Now due to the exception of a portion of the population her rights have been infringed. Now she must see a Dr every 30 days and purchase a prescription that cost many times the price of the Quinine Sulfate. Anyway. The root of the problem is exception for specific classes. That is the issue. What class? how large? is it religion? Is it sexual preference? The exceptions are what kills society only due to none agreement of the exception.

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Jun 12, 2021 10:52:12   #
Canisdirus
 
Drbobcameraguy wrote:
Lol. Ok understood. Lol. As always there is an exception to every rule or advice. Now we have the root of the problem. Exceptions. How far do we go with them? Do we infringe the rights of many for the rights of a few? If so what is the number where it is not worth the exception? If 2 people are allergic to steak do we ban steak? This is were it turns into a MAJOR MESS. As evidenced by today's society even so far as medication. Example Quinine Sulfate. Removed from the shelves because a portion of the population had I'll effects. My wife needed it terribly for her medical condition. Worked very well and was inexpensive. Now due to the exception of a portion of the population her rights have been infringed. Now she must see a Dr every 30 days and purchase a prescription that cost many times the price of the Quinine Sulfate. Anyway. The root of the problem is exception for specific classes. That is the issue. What class? how large? is it religion? Is it sexual preference? The exceptions are what kills society only due to none agreement of the exception.
Lol. Ok understood. Lol. As always there is an ex... (show quote)


No, the golden rule is fine with the 'average' person.
I'd wager there are a lot more socio/psychopaths/narcissists/paranoids than ... just a few.

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Jun 12, 2021 12:01:01   #
Reno
 
Drbobcameraguy wrote:
Freedom is honestly nothing left to lose. If you have anything at all you are a slave to it. So freedom as you say does not exist.


You are wrong! Being a slave to what you have depends on many factors. First, who you are. Next, on what it is, and what it means to you. There are no material things in my life I'm a slave to, or could not live without. Including my Canon R5. :-)

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Jun 12, 2021 12:32:02   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
Reno wrote:
You are wrong! Being a slave to what you have depends on many factors. First, who you are. Next, on what it is, and what it means to you. There are no material things in my life I'm a slave to, or could not live without. Including my Canon R5. :-)


I believe you have a home. You pay taxes if you had no money you would have to work to keep it. Now you are a slave to your home. Freedom only truly comes when you have NOTHING TO LOSS.

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