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Yes, they are after your guns
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Jun 9, 2021 23:58:35   #
thom w Loc: San Jose, CA
 
btbg wrote:
Cars and motorcycles are registered by the state for the purpose of generating revenue.

Federal registration is a totally different issue. The only reason they want guns registered is so that later they know where to go to take them if they want to. You need to keep in mind our Constitution guarantees the right to own a gun or guns, it does not guarantee the right to own a motorcycle.

And, everyone is skipping right by the problem with the new requirements for stock braces for pistols. By the new definition it makes the pistol into a rifle, which then makes the pistol illegal because it makes the barrel too short. But, it isn't a rifle, it is still a pistol. There is no reason to try to make a gun less accurate, so their reason has to be something else. It isn't about safety, because greater accuracy means greater safety. So, what is the regulation about? It has to be about control, or taking guns away. There is no other justification for Biden's executive order. It makes pistols less accurate for some people, and it does not improve public safety.

It also isn't a problem where criminals are buying pistols and converting them to rifles. Most gun murders in the U.S. are done with pistols, not with pistols with braces or with rifles. So, once again the gun control advocates aren't even going after the guns or devices that might be a problem.

They are going after rifles, which constitute a small percentage of gun crimes, and they are going after pistol braces, which as far as anyone on this forum know have not even been used in any crimes at this point in time.

Think about it, Biden seems to think that putting a brace on a pistol makes it a rifle. If you were going to commit a crime and needed an accurate gun would you use a rifle, or would you put a brace on your pistol? Of course you would use a rifle unless you needed to conceal the weapon, in which case you would choose the pistol, but without the brace.

They clearly aren't trying to stop pistol braces to lower crime. Because they just aren't involved in crime.
Cars and motorcycles are registered by the state f... (show quote)


"which as far as anyone on this forum know have not even been used in any crimes at this point in time"

Unless you have surveyed everyone on this forum, you can't know this.

Reply
Jun 10, 2021 11:01:49   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
thom w wrote:
Why are we supposed to take solace in the fact that someone using a bump stock is more likely to hit someone other than the person they are trying to? If someone dear to you is k**led or injured by a firearm, or more likely a projectile fired from a firearm,how much comfort will you take in knowing that 97% (your number) of firearms are never used in a crime, or unsafely?


little girl you are bringing up points not in evidence aren't you? Give us examples of someone using a bump stock and some other person has been hit by a stray bullet because the firearm has a bump stock attached. I doubt you can. Is it a possibility? Of course it is possible. You driving to the store and then swerving when a vehicle pulls out in front of you causing you to strike a pedestrian is also possible. An engine falling from a 747 aircraft and hitting someone is possible too. The world is filled with possible causes of death but your predictions of doom are most likely few and far between.

All of us live in the theory that when we wake up in the morning all will be mostly well, we won't be k**led by a vehicle crash, an engine falling from an aircraft or any other form of death. But it does happen. You are trying to make some bullet fired from a particular type of rifle in the forefront of those deaths. It isn't going to happen. I can be target shooting with a single shot .22 rifle in the forest and accidentally hit someone who might be on a picnic 400 yards from me. But c'mon princess, what are the chances?

Dennis

Reply
Jun 10, 2021 11:05:42   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
thom w wrote:
Of course you have evidence to back up your statement? Or are you just attempting to read minds?


princess you know as well as we all do that governments generate money from vehicle registrations. You know that, yet now you are trying to be snarky and ignorant by having someone prove something we all know. By the same token some police agencies charge exorbitant fees to do a background check for a concealed carry permit. Some charge hundreds of dollars and all that was done is a simple computer check of DOJ/NCIC records that can be done in a few minutes depending on workload of computer operators. Governments need money to exist and grow. They charge money for doing things for citizens.

Please do not play the Fool just because it comes easy to you.

Dennis

Reply
 
 
Jun 10, 2021 11:07:37   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
btbg wrote:
Cars and motorcycles are registered by the state for the purpose of generating revenue.

Federal registration is a totally different issue. The only reason they want guns registered is so that later they know where to go to take them if they want to. You need to keep in mind our Constitution guarantees the right to own a gun or guns, it does not guarantee the right to own a motorcycle.

And, everyone is skipping right by the problem with the new requirements for stock braces for pistols. By the new definition it makes the pistol into a rifle, which then makes the pistol illegal because it makes the barrel too short. But, it isn't a rifle, it is still a pistol. There is no reason to try to make a gun less accurate, so their reason has to be something else. It isn't about safety, because greater accuracy means greater safety. So, what is the regulation about? It has to be about control, or taking guns away. There is no other justification for Biden's executive order. It makes pistols less accurate for some people, and it does not improve public safety.

It also isn't a problem where criminals are buying pistols and converting them to rifles. Most gun murders in the U.S. are done with pistols, not with pistols with braces or with rifles. So, once again the gun control advocates aren't even going after the guns or devices that might be a problem.

They are going after rifles, which constitute a small percentage of gun crimes, and they are going after pistol braces, which as far as anyone on this forum know have not even been used in any crimes at this point in time.

Think about it, Biden seems to think that putting a brace on a pistol makes it a rifle. If you were going to commit a crime and needed an accurate gun would you use a rifle, or would you put a brace on your pistol? Of course you would use a rifle unless you needed to conceal the weapon, in which case you would choose the pistol, but without the brace.

They clearly aren't trying to stop pistol braces to lower crime. Because they just aren't involved in crime.
Cars and motorcycles are registered by the state f... (show quote)




Well written and accurate. None of these things will ever stop one crime and the Democrats know that. This is ALL about people control, not crime control.

Dennis

Reply
Jun 10, 2021 11:14:25   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
Shutterbug1697 wrote:
Which is what happened with the outlawing of bumpstocks isn't it?

You have a choice, either lose the pistol brace, or have your combination of firearm with the pistol brace declared illegal.

If you can't fire a handgun without experiencing recoil, then that handgun isn't the correct handgun for you.

Decisions have consequences.

If you decided on the wrong handgun, then needed an "add-on" to try to steady your shot, then it's the wrong handgun for you.

I'm sorry that you don't agree with me, but you've got to be realistic about your choices.

As with cameras, a firearm has got to fit your hands, be the right physical weight, and do the job for which it was purchased, or that expensive firearm won't perform the way you intended it to, no matter how much money you spent on your purchase.

It becomes nothing more than a "GAS" attack.
Which is what happened with the outlawing of bumps... (show quote)


You brought up cameras in a conversation involving firearms when you clearly know there is no correlation at all. The government is not regulating cameras but trying to regulate firearms, all types of firearms. You know as well as anybody else who has common sense that a pistol brace is not going to endanger anyone. Recoil is a problem for some people and so they take steps to mitigate some of that recoil. To hear you talk, those things that help a shooter with recoil should shoot smaller caliber firearms. But what about a recoil pad? What about a muzzle brake? Those help to reduce recoil and yet the government has not involved itself with those items. Why not?

You are also forgetting a pistol brace ALSO helps to add accuracy to a firearm. It is not all about recoil. Should not a person want to be more accurate in his shooting. Is that not a safety feature to hit your target and not someone else by accident. It would seem the shooting world wants to make the shooting sports safer and the government under Democratic leadership (now there is an oxymoron) wants to control the type of recoil reducer a person uses.

You present no convincing argument at all, just more Left Wing gun control bulls**t for no reason.

Dennis

Reply
Jun 10, 2021 11:18:24   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
thom w wrote:
"which as far as anyone on this forum know have not even been used in any crimes at this point in time"

Unless you have surveyed everyone on this forum, you can't know this.


But princess, you can't know the opposite either can you? If you know that pistol braces HAVE been used in any crimes then point it out. Use Google if you wish. Remember Google is your friend. If you cannot then the other poster's comment is true and you are jumping at the moon for your answers.

Dennis

Reply
Jun 10, 2021 12:22:59   #
btbg
 
[quote=Shutterbug1697]Which is what happened with the outlawing of bumpstocks isn't it?

You have a choice, either lose the pistol brace, or have your combination of firearm with the pistol brace declared illegal.

If you can't fire a handgun without experiencing recoil, then that handgun isn't the correct handgun for you.

Decisions have consequences.

If you decided on the wrong handgun, then needed an "add-on" to try to steady your shot, then it's the wrong handgun for you.

I'm sorry that you don't agree with me, but you've got to be realistic about your choices."

As with cameras, a firearm has got to fit your hands, be the right physical weight, and do the job for which it was purchased, or that expensive firearm won't perform the way you intended it to, no matter how much money you spent on your purchase.

Things are never as simple as you are trying to make them. It is not possible to purchase a pistol that fits both my wife and I. I am 6-7 250 and she is 5-1 100. We own one pistol. It is a little on the small side for me, and it is too big for her. A brace solves the problem and we can both use it.

There are lots of reasons that people may choose to purchase an accessory for their guns. Most of the time it is either to increase accuracy or to increase comfort. One would think that everyone would agree that increased accuracy is a good thing.

As far as comfort, my son in law purchased a shotgun last summer that kicks like a horse. It didn't bother me, but it gave him a serious bruise on his shoulder and nearly knocked my daughter down. Adding a piece on the end of the stock to absorb some of the jolt helped both of them be able to use the shotgun more effectively.

In addition, you imply that if there is too much recoil than a person should have a smaller caliber gun. The pistol we have is pretty much the minimum to have any hope of stopping a bear. So, perhaps we should own a .22 pistol instead of a .45, just so my wife can shoot it better, even though that won't do a thing to stop a bear.

Get real.

Reply
 
 
Jun 10, 2021 14:18:26   #
Leo_B Loc: Houston suburb
 
Shutterbug1697 wrote:
Which is what happened with the outlawing of bumpstocks isn't it?

You have a choice, either lose the pistol brace, or have your combination of firearm with the pistol brace declared illegal.

If you can't fire a handgun without experiencing recoil, then that handgun isn't the correct handgun for you.

Decisions have consequences.

If you decided on the wrong handgun, then needed an "add-on" to try to steady your shot, then it's the wrong handgun for you.

I'm sorry that you don't agree with me, but you've got to be realistic about your choices.

As with cameras, a firearm has got to fit your hands, be the right physical weight, and do the job for which it was purchased, or that expensive firearm won't perform the way you intended it to, no matter how much money you spent on your purchase.

It becomes nothing more than a "GAS" attack.
Which is what happened with the outlawing of bumps... (show quote)


By your logic it would be no different than if they banned power steering and you'd say if you can't turn the wheel without power steering you shouldn't have that vehicle.

You have no interest in legality or sensibility, just in spouting the l*****t dogma. That is absolutely your right but it doesn't make you right.

Reply
Jun 10, 2021 16:11:01   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
Leo_B wrote:
By your logic it would be no different than if they banned power steering and you'd say if you can't turn the wheel without power steering you shouldn't have that vehicle.

You have no interest in legality or sensibility, just in spouting the l*****t dogma. That is absolutely your right but it doesn't make you right.




You are exactly right. There are numerous modifications to make anyone shoot better, recoil pads, muzzle brakes, improved triggers, better sights such as scopes, Red Dot sights, even adjustable sights to better bring the point of impact to the point of aim, stocks that can be adjusted to fit the shooter rather than the, one size fits all, stock of years ago, grip adjustments as come on Glock pistols to give the shooter better trigger to hand adjustment, ambidextrous safeties for left and right shooters OR for someone who has been shot in their shooting hand and now must use their other hand to return fire or be k**led. Yes there are any number of firearms modifications that are available to shooters and each can be a terrific addition to enable that shooter to better, faster and easier shoot wh**ever firearm the shooter wants to improve. The pistol brace fits into that very same category and should not be registered, banned or otherwise screwed with by a government that fears its citizens.

As a firearms instructor and someone who has been into firearms and shooting for over 65 years I have seen the differences these items can make to make a poor shooter a great shooter.

Dennis

Reply
Jun 10, 2021 19:31:10   #
Shutterbug1697 Loc: Northeast
 
dennis2146 wrote:
You brought up cameras in a conversation involving firearms when you clearly know there is no correlation at all. The government is not regulating cameras but trying to regulate firearms, all types of firearms. You know as well as anybody else who has common sense that a pistol brace is not going to endanger anyone. Recoil is a problem for some people and so they take steps to mitigate some of that recoil. To hear you talk, those things that help a shooter with recoil should shoot smaller caliber firearms. But what about a recoil pad? What about a muzzle brake? Those help to reduce recoil and yet the government has not involved itself with those items. Why not?

You are also forgetting a pistol brace ALSO helps to add accuracy to a firearm. It is not all about recoil. Should not a person want to be more accurate in his shooting. Is that not a safety feature to hit your target and not someone else by accident. It would seem the shooting world wants to make the shooting sports safer and the government under Democratic leadership (now there is an oxymoron) wants to control the type of recoil reducer a person uses.

You present no convincing argument at all, just more Left Wing gun control bulls**t for no reason.

Dennis
You brought up cameras in a conversation involving... (show quote)

I figured that I would add a link to pictures of pistol braces for those who would like a visual.

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk01QXDNHQ0FM_VN8Mw6eFnBtAKfJag:1623366925467&source=univ&tbm=isch&q=pistol+brace+pictures&client=tablet-android-samsung-nf-rev1&fir=ptsKZOCPqvnnyM%252CPiTIQtG9S15thM%252C_%253BXB97SGTclZXXHM%252CTRs6JX_eFlgfuM%252C_%253BbT1MAqzts3g_qM%252Cm4AMRZiUfttwiM%252C_%253BaH2q4rp_HG9ljM%252CCCRRkBglAvdCZM%252C_%253B7Z6ExdQ-mDAkVM%252CX59RxETPIdRqQM%252C_%253B9pjy6zZWOO4LyM%252CRFTCeTU9EjmgKM%252C_%253B89fmloF27mF7VM%252C4AWZdS0OefsshM%252C_%253B89P5qtBM_6UkkM%252C4ZcCa-vtS7RCpM%252C_%253Bcifxj9-Z1uaL1M%252C2jQFzD8k3A090M%252C_%253B6HJNf72c6CTxtM%252COdakzKsMigK9FM%252C_%253B-U4XkcqJTDdpYM%252CBvfh7fgjChcULM%252C_%253B0-CCS8oIc4PpIM%252CX59RxETPIdRqQM%252C_%253B18k36UNCDcevpM%252CLiODOZqXPRkLlM%252C_%253B_Fl_yEXhRBqDaM%252C4LGYoX1fTEhIBM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kTn733gUdypj6pCeyb6ZSoosLUufQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjYrrqHmY7xAhWETd8KHWD-CzsQ7Al6BAgHEF4&biw=1205&bih=753&dpr=2.13

What is the purpose of most handguns?

Aren't they for personal protection?

How "accurate" does someone need to hit an assailant somewhere in their body to slow them down or stop them?

Yes, you can argue that a dead assailant can't hurt you any longer.

The torso presents the largest target on a body, if you can't k**l them with a single shot to the heart, a gut shot is the next best target. You don't need to be super accurate for a gut shot, there's a lot of room for a margin of error.

I don’t see the need for a pistol brace.

The only thing that I can think of where extreme accuracy is needed is for target shooting. Tight clusters of shots is a bragging right, nothing more.

Yes, law enforcement and military members need to "qualify" to maintain their jobs, but not the general public.

Reply
Jun 10, 2021 19:35:41   #
Shutterbug1697 Loc: Northeast
 
Leo_B wrote:
By your logic it would be no different than if they banned power steering and you'd say if you can't turn the wheel without power steering you shouldn't have that vehicle.

You have no interest in legality or sensibility, just in spouting the l*****t dogma. That is absolutely your right but it doesn't make you right.

Don't knock standard steering if you haven't tried it.

Yes, I'm old enough to have driven a vehicle with standard rather than power steering.

Reply
 
 
Jun 10, 2021 19:57:10   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
Shutterbug1697 wrote:
I figured that I would add a link to pictures of pistol braces for those who would like a visual.

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk01QXDNHQ0FM_VN8Mw6eFnBtAKfJag:1623366925467&source=univ&tbm=isch&q=pistol+brace+pictures&client=tablet-android-samsung-nf-rev1&fir=ptsKZOCPqvnnyM%252CPiTIQtG9S15thM%252C_%253BXB97SGTclZXXHM%252CTRs6JX_eFlgfuM%252C_%253BbT1MAqzts3g_qM%252Cm4AMRZiUfttwiM%252C_%253BaH2q4rp_HG9ljM%252CCCRRkBglAvdCZM%252C_%253B7Z6ExdQ-mDAkVM%252CX59RxETPIdRqQM%252C_%253B9pjy6zZWOO4LyM%252CRFTCeTU9EjmgKM%252C_%253B89fmloF27mF7VM%252C4AWZdS0OefsshM%252C_%253B89P5qtBM_6UkkM%252C4ZcCa-vtS7RCpM%252C_%253Bcifxj9-Z1uaL1M%252C2jQFzD8k3A090M%252C_%253B6HJNf72c6CTxtM%252COdakzKsMigK9FM%252C_%253B-U4XkcqJTDdpYM%252CBvfh7fgjChcULM%252C_%253B0-CCS8oIc4PpIM%252CX59RxETPIdRqQM%252C_%253B18k36UNCDcevpM%252CLiODOZqXPRkLlM%252C_%253B_Fl_yEXhRBqDaM%252C4LGYoX1fTEhIBM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kTn733gUdypj6pCeyb6ZSoosLUufQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjYrrqHmY7xAhWETd8KHWD-CzsQ7Al6BAgHEF4&biw=1205&bih=753&dpr=2.13

What is the purpose of most handguns?

Aren't they for personal protection?

How "accurate" does someone need to hit an assailant somewhere in their body to slow them down or stop them?

Yes, you can argue that a dead assailant can't hurt you any longer.

The torso presents the largest target on a body, if you can't k**l them with a single shot to the heart, a gut shot is the next best target. You don't need to be super accurate for a gut shot, there's a lot of room for a margin of error.

I don’t see the need for a pistol brace.

The only thing that I can think of where extreme accuracy is needed is for target shooting. Tight clusters of shots is a bragging right, nothing more.

Yes, law enforcement and military members need to "qualify" to maintain their jobs, but not the general public.
I figured that I would add a link to pictures of p... (show quote)


As usual you are stuck with your limited knowledge of a subject. Yet you are off and running with ignorance for a running mate.

Handguns are used for shooting out to 500 yards and sometimes more. I personally used to shoot targets at 200 yards to see how a 2 inch 38 Special would do. Once I had the range it did pretty well. I would not want me shooting a handgun at myself at 200 yards. I might get hit.

I have used a revolver to k**l deer several times. I know of several people who have k**led elephant, hippo, lion, leopard and other big game.

Handguns have been/are used for home protection, self defense on the streets and formal and informal target practice. How is it you seem ignorant of these common every day facts yet feel you have the right to dictate what equipment shooters may use?

You point out that tight clusters on targets are only good for bragging rights while forgetting that civilian shooters who do not shoot those tight clusters are more apt to shoot other than what they aim at. Now we wouldn’t want that would we? There is a reason military and LEO shoot for practice. Civilian shooters practice too and for the same reason. You just do not know what you are talking about and it shows. How sad you make comments about a subject you really know nothing about.

Dennis

Reply
Jun 10, 2021 20:03:09   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
Shutterbug1697 wrote:
Don't knock standard steering if you haven't tried it.

Yes, I'm old enough to have driven a vehicle with standard rather than power steering.


He didn’t knock standard steering at all. He knocked your negative comments on improvements to help people shoot.

Dennis

Reply
Jun 10, 2021 20:04:29   #
scooter1 Loc: Yacolt, Wa.
 
Shutterbug1697 wrote:
Which is what happened with the outlawing of bumpstocks isn't it?

You have a choice, either lose the pistol brace, or have your combination of firearm with the pistol brace declared illegal.

If you can't fire a handgun without experiencing recoil, then that handgun isn't the correct handgun for you.

Decisions have consequences.

If you decided on the wrong handgun, then needed an "add-on" to try to steady your shot, then it's the wrong handgun for you.

I'm sorry that you don't agree with me, but you've got to be realistic about your choices.

As with cameras, a firearm has got to fit your hands, be the right physical weight, and do the job for which it was purchased, or that expensive firearm won't perform the way you intended it to, no matter how much money you spent on your purchase.

It becomes nothing more than a "GAS" attack.
Which is what happened with the outlawing of bumps... (show quote)


The uninformed tries to show how much they know about the subject but everytime they speak they show just how much they don't know. Every handgun has a recoil. Even little bb guns.

Reply
Jun 10, 2021 20:18:25   #
Leo_B Loc: Houston suburb
 
Shutterbug1697 wrote:
Don't knock standard steering if you haven't tried it.

Yes, I'm old enough to have driven a vehicle with standard rather than power steering.


I've driven manual steering. I prefer power steering. Just as I'd prefer having a pistol brace to not. I should have both choices freely at my discretion. There is no legitimate reason to restrict me in either way. Just as there is no legitimate reason to restrict any of the other multi-multi-multi-millions of honest citizens. None whatsoever.

Reply
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