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Photography on Public Land- Town Park
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May 14, 2021 15:25:44   #
SouthShooter Loc: Southern USA
 
Thank you for the information. Well said.

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May 14, 2021 16:13:39   #
RPaul3rd Loc: Arlington VA and Sarasota FL
 
Mr. Veazey, thank you for your service in law enforcement and for the lengthy explanation. PW/Sarasota Fl

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May 14, 2021 16:22:32   #
Miamark Loc: Florida
 
RPaul3rd wrote:
Mr. Veazey, thank you for your service in law enforcement and for the lengthy explanation. PW/Sarasota Fl


This really is not a law enforcement issue unless you are photographing people on private property or making an audio recording where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. Even a photograph of someone on private property is questionable the photographer is not trespassing. At most, we are talking about civil liability but it would not appear to be an issue under the circumstances described. Again, the poster may ask a local attorney.

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May 14, 2021 18:41:56   #
Nigel7 Loc: Worcestershire. UK.
 
forensics7 wrote:
I am looking to see if anyone has had any issues with a private club telling someone they couldn't take photos of children or be on "their property". In this case, a soccer club has been using the RPB Memorial Park here for various games. At the invite of my neighbor to take photos of his son playing, I did so and have done at least 10 games at this same site. I ran into a guy this week, maybe British who may not know the privacy/legal laws regarding public photography and he said I can't take photos of kids on their teams. I have searched all the sites on Internet and find parks, town land is public and any photos can be taken. I understand the issue of posting on Internet etc but they were just for my neighbor.
Anyway, I plan to go back and do another game but want to be sure the soccer club doesn't lease or control the land ( soccer fields) in any way. The guy on the field running the tournament was fine and probably didn't know but his boss, President or CEO of club threatened to call the police, which I should have called him on but decided to have all my ducks in a row before returning. This guy was also foreign, I say that only because of the possibility he doesn't know privacy and photography issues.
I plan to call the Town Rec center and the local police to verify its public land. Another friend who has been a photographer for many years, said he has never had a problem. Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.
I am looking to see if anyone has had any issues w... (show quote)


This is an interesting subject which effects all photographers. You mention that the guy who complained may be British. On that point I just want to clarify that the law in Britain is very much the same as is being explained by other Hoggers from the US.
You are entirely within your rights to photograph for personal, non commercial use, on public land. On private land the owner may set his/her own rules.
However, photographing children is a very contentious issue with many people so a reasonable discussion, explaining what you are doing and showing your photos to the complainant is a sensible reaction, rather than getting confrontational. In the UK there have been many articles on this subject in our press and I do keep a copy in my camera bag. There have even been cases of police officers requesting cameras to delete images. They have no such right without a court order so you can stand your ground. These issues were topical several years ago but, as far as I know, the problem is far rarer now as more people in authority have had the law explained to them.

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May 14, 2021 19:36:50   #
saminpa2001
 
I will stop when they stop the photos from cell phones, a photo is a photo period!!!

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May 14, 2021 19:42:04   #
bittermelon
 
David Martin wrote:
Perhaps the problem is an adult taking pictures of other kids, whose parents did not give permission?

I agree completely with consulting local law enforcement. I think you should also consult the soccer league which may have rules prohibiting photographing children.

I understand your motives to be honest and sincere. However, as a parent, I would not feel comfortable with a stranger taking pictures of my children who is neither a parent of one of the players nor a hired professional photographer.
Perhaps the problem is an adult taking pictures of... (show quote)


I agree with this. Forget about the law this and the law that. Maybe the parent simply does a stranger taking photos of their kids. On our public parks, there are signs that say "Adults must be accompanied by children". There are lots of weirdos in this world.

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May 15, 2021 12:20:39   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
forensics7 wrote:
I am looking to see if anyone has had any issues with a private club telling someone they couldn't take photos of children or be on "their property". In this case, a soccer club has been using the RPB Memorial Park here for various games. At the invite of my neighbor to take photos of his son playing, I did so and have done at least 10 games at this same site. I ran into a guy this week, maybe British who may not know the privacy/legal laws regarding public photography and he said I can't take photos of kids on their teams. I have searched all the sites on Internet and find parks, town land is public and any photos can be taken. I understand the issue of posting on Internet etc but they were just for my neighbor.
Anyway, I plan to go back and do another game but want to be sure the soccer club doesn't lease or control the land ( soccer fields) in any way. The guy on the field running the tournament was fine and probably didn't know but his boss, President or CEO of club threatened to call the police, which I should have called him on but decided to have all my ducks in a row before returning. This guy was also foreign, I say that only because of the possibility he doesn't know privacy and photography issues.
I plan to call the Town Rec center and the local police to verify its public land. Another friend who has been a photographer for many years, said he has never had a problem. Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.
I am looking to see if anyone has had any issues w... (show quote)


It is not an issue of public or private land, in this case.

It's the age of the subjects you're photographing.

While in broad terms we're free to photograph on public property, the courts always make an exception when kids are involved. There are just too many unscrupulous people around, so kids get extra protection and the courts err on the side of caution.

You have to jump through some simple hoops for permission to shoot anything at schools, for example. I would imagine it's very much the same with a youth soccer league, whether it be playing on school grounds, on private property or in a public park. Get permission from the event organizer in writing. An email from them you printed out would probably be fine. Take that with you in case anyone questions what you're doing. I also would recommend never posting the images anywhere online without a parent or guardian signed minor modeling release.

I'm not a lawyer, but I do photograph some youth sports. Never without permission and I will not display the images online for the kids, parents and family to view, unless they sign a release for me.

It is much easier to head off issues in advance this way, than to have to deal with the confrontations and problems that can arise at the event.

There are other public properties where photography is restricted or can be problematic and a little effort getting permission in advance can go a long way avoiding issues. For example: airports, court houses, jails, mints, legislative offices and military bases are all public property. But someone showing up with camera and snapping away, even from the public right of way, might be considered suspicious and generate a confrontation. Simply talking with someone in advance might have avoided the problems.

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May 16, 2021 16:57:26   #
ecommons
 
If this is a public park, you have full rights to shoot the event. The law says one should not expect privacy in a public setting.

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May 18, 2021 17:27:42   #
dat2ra Loc: Sacramento
 
Longshadow wrote:
So even if someone's opinion really is in error (based on erroneous information), they should still be respected for propagating bad information because it's their opinion??? I guess we must be nice at any cost?


IMO: NO! At at local BLM protest, several "participants" told me that I "couldn't take photos of individuals without their permission" even though they were on a public street and park. I think "respect" is something that is earned by deed and not something everyone "deserved" merely by existing. "Decency" sure, but that is how you treat others, not something you "owe" them.

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May 18, 2021 17:37:43   #
dat2ra Loc: Sacramento
 
State law cannot supersede the US Constitution. The Supreme Court has ruled very clearly on this issue: The right to take photographs in public places that does not invade a reasonable expectation of privacy (such as photographing through someone's window) is protected by the First Amendment. Although it is considered "polite" you do not need permission to photograph people who are on public lands. Local entities such as police and parents may not know this, and may object, but they do not have legal cause. For more detail consult:

https://www.acludc.org/en/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-if-stopped-photographing-public

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May 18, 2021 17:42:46   #
dat2ra Loc: Sacramento
 
traderjohn wrote:
I would be guided by what the police dept told you.


The local police are not the arbitrators of the 1st Amendment which protects your right to take photographs on public lands so long as there is no reasonable expectation of privacy (14th Amendment). The Supreme Court has ruled on this very clearly and NO local or state law enforcement agency can legally supersede Federal law regardless of how much they might want to. See
https://www.acludc.org/en/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-if-stopped-photographing-public

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May 18, 2021 19:12:03   #
Miamark Loc: Florida
 
dat2ra wrote:
The local police are not the arbitrators of the 1st Amendment which protects your right to take photographs on public lands so long as there is no reasonable expectation of privacy (14th Amendment). The Supreme Court has ruled on this very clearly and NO local or state law enforcement agency can legally supersede Federal law regardless of how much they might want to. See
https://www.acludc.org/en/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-if-stopped-photographing-public


The Supreme Court case that you reference deals with warrantless searches of cell phones. In any event, you are correct, that a photographer may photograph people or events on public lands. The are privacy rights that may kick in depending upon the use of the photograph or video. These are not law enforcement issues unless you are on private property in which case there might be a trespass.

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May 19, 2021 11:18:39   #
dat2ra Loc: Sacramento
 
Miamark wrote:
The Supreme Court case that you reference deals with warrantless searches of cell phones.


And cameras. It prevents police from requiring you to show them or delete your photos.

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May 19, 2021 13:46:07   #
Miamark Loc: Florida
 
dat2ra wrote:
The local police are not the arbitrators of the 1st Amendment which protects your right to take photographs on public lands so long as there is no reasonable expectation of privacy (14th Amendment). The Supreme Court has ruled on this very clearly and NO local or state law enforcement agency can legally supersede Federal law regardless of how much they might want to. See
https://www.acludc.org/en/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-if-stopped-photographing-public


The Supreme Court case that underlies the ACLU article that you cite, i.e., Riley v. California, does not deal with First Amendment or Fourteenth Amendment rights of privacy. It addresses the Fourth Amendment exclusionary rule that resulted in the suppression of cell phone data in a search of a cell phone, incident to an arrest of a suspect, without a search warrant. In an event, unrelated to that case, you may photograph police or other activities such as a soccer game (which is where this started) in a public area. If you are in a private area, you may be committing a trespass.

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May 19, 2021 21:02:01   #
dat2ra Loc: Sacramento
 
Miamark:
The article I cited discusses the rights of photographers on public lands and the appropriate responses if questioned. It is not restricted to Riley v. California which was not a US Supreme Court case decision consistent with the 1st and 14th Amendments. Anyway, I'm more interested in photography than law so you can have this one as you wish.

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