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A little help explaining mirrorless
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Apr 16, 2021 18:18:19   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
Canisdirus wrote:
Camera manufacturers don't care about the old photographers.
They aren't the future of their industry.
Camera manufacturers are trying to create and maintain young photographers.
They want to drive the point home to the youth that a cellphone is not a replacement for a camera.

The camera corps will take on all the previous DSLR customers who see that...
The rest? They don't care about them...they can keep their stuck in 3rd gear bodies forever.
Camera corps. want a new base...for their future.
Camera manufacturers don't care about the old phot... (show quote)


Unless something changes, that battle is lost. A look around will give you the first clue. Conversations with the kids will seal it. They live for the present. The past is irrelevant, and the future is yet to be invented. And they don't have interest in carrying anything around that interferes with their ability to watch their phones.

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Apr 16, 2021 18:49:57   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
imagemeister wrote:
The resolution differences between the f and z mount lenses (so far) are relatively LARGE - and so, IMO, an "average" viewer should be able to SEE the difference , -IF- the subject has enough detail to reveal the difference.
.


Thanks Larry!

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Apr 16, 2021 18:50:46   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
JohnR wrote:
Do you believe everything that you read? Wider throat diameter will allow a larger aperture but whether the lens is better for that depends on other factors. Shorter flange distance is totally irrelevant - a 50mm lens MUST be the same distance from the sensor regardless of what body its on. Engineers don't design lenses - they design bridges and roads etc. Designs of prime lens has been fully explored and known for decades - the quality of such lenses dependant on the quality of the glass and the accuracy of the grind. Zoom lenses however with their many elements are where computer aided design has helped - back in the 60's where we only had film there were few zooms available beyond 3x. My first camera kit - a Pentax, had a 35mm prime, a 50mm prime and a 135mm telephoto prime (cost me an arm and a leg!) - not a zoom in sight. Todays monster zooms of +60x with their many elements on small sensor cameras are where computer aided design is very necessary. Finally "better" is a subjective assessment. To say a sharper lens is better depends on the use, user and viewer - also whether mirrorless is better than DSLR
Do you believe everything that you read? Wider thr... (show quote)


Wow! Do you believe everything you write? That is so uninformed, first commenting on lens design factors that you have no understanding of, then claiming that engineers only build roads and bridges. Are you aware that there are many different kinds of engineers, including optical and electrical engineers? Both of which would have had a part in designing lenses. Also, a 50mm lens does not have to be 50 millimeters from the sensor. The rear nodal point of the lens is 50mm from the sensor when focused to infinity. Even prime lenses aren’t just a simple single optical element. Multiple elements are used in primes to correct distortion and color aberrations. There’s a lot more that goes into lens design than you know.

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Apr 16, 2021 18:53:38   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
larryepage wrote:
Unless something changes, that battle is lost. A look around will give you the first clue. Conversations with the kids will seal it. They live for the present. The past is irrelevant, and the future is yet to be invented. And they don't have interest in carrying anything around that interferes with their ability to watch their phones.


Maybe you just don't hang out in the same places that young people do.

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Apr 16, 2021 19:56:24   #
JohnR Loc: The Gates of Hell
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
Wow! Do you believe everything you write? That is so uninformed, first commenting on lens design factors that you have no understanding of, then claiming that engineers only build roads and bridges. Are you aware that there are many different kinds of engineers, including optical and electrical engineers? Both of which would have had a part in designing lenses. Also, a 50mm lens does not have to be 50 millimeters from the sensor. The rear nodal point of the lens is 50mm from the sensor when focused to infinity. Even prime lenses aren’t just a simple single optical element. Multiple elements are used in primes to correct distortion and color aberrations. There’s a lot more that goes into lens design than you know.
Wow! Do you believe everything you write? That i... (show quote)


Oh dear so put in my place I shall take my unworthy soul and so outmoded cameras and cast myself and them into a deep bottomless ocean never to be seen or heard from again. Sorry and goodbye Mr BlowflyTNT

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Apr 16, 2021 20:35:35   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
Bill_de wrote:
Maybe you just don't hang out in the same places that young people do.

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With them all day, every day.

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Apr 17, 2021 12:48:25   #
ronpier Loc: Poland Ohio
 
Canisdirus wrote:
Yes, at your age...who cares. You can shoot for the rest of your life with DSLR's.


That’s the plan. With the huge market supply and low prices one Nikon DSLR purchased new or used regularly over the next 30 years would be fun. Maybe throw in a mirrorless here and there. These cameras all last a lifetime.

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Apr 17, 2021 13:20:17   #
Canisdirus
 
ronpier wrote:
That’s the plan. With the huge market supply and low prices one Nikon DSLR purchased new or used regularly over the next 30 years would be fun. Maybe throw in a mirrorless here and there. These cameras all last a lifetime.


Nothing wrong with that plan...enjoy!

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Apr 17, 2021 17:56:57   #
chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA
 
larryepage wrote:
With them all day, every day.


...anecdotal is anecdotal, Larry. I just sold a D800 to a kid (early twenties...looked like he just got off a surfboard) and he was one excited soul. "I want to learn *everything*" he said! And I also regularly consul high school photogs associated with the groups I work with (at last count, 5 marching bands in SoCal). So, I guess my point is beware of stereotyping our youngsters...they might surprise you!

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Apr 17, 2021 18:18:59   #
User ID
 
imagemeister wrote:
Mirrorless makes a LOT of things SIMPLER in image making....The affordable ML can do everything better than SLR except fast action wildlife and sports - for that it takes un-affordable ML.

Higher quality images are no longer valued in our society - content takes precedence over quality by a wide margin - but ML makes higher quality images simpler for those who do still value quality (mostly OLDER people). Simpler is better !
.

The valued images from the past are mostly very adequate quality, not geek peeper ultra quality. IOW run of the mill photo gear, competently operated, was the tech level and the IQ level.

It’s only right and proper that content trumps quality. The opposite balance is just boring tech exercises. Acoarst this doesn’t suggest that quality should be any less than was just described above.

But content is first last and always. And quality must be good enough to very decently “package” the content.

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Apr 17, 2021 18:52:55   #
ronpier Loc: Poland Ohio
 
Canisdirus wrote:
Nothing wrong with that plan...enjoy!


Am and will. Same to you. A camera (even used)purchased regularly is good for the soul. Have fun!!

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Apr 17, 2021 18:59:01   #
User ID
 
ronpier wrote:
A camera (even used)purchased regularly is good for the soul.

Saw a tee shirt promoting rather similar good advice:
“When in doubt, buy a guitar.”

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Apr 17, 2021 19:34:15   #
chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA
 
User ID wrote:
Saw a tee shirt promoting rather similar good advice:
“When in doubt, buy a guitar.”


...or a tuba! ;0)

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Apr 17, 2021 21:28:58   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
chasgroh wrote:
...anecdotal is anecdotal, Larry. I just sold a D800 to a kid (early twenties...looked like he just got off a surfboard) and he was one excited soul. "I want to learn *everything*" he said! And I also regularly consul high school photogs associated with the groups I work with (at last count, 5 marching bands in SoCal). So, I guess my point is beware of stereotyping our youngsters...they might surprise you!


You are correct about anecdotal data. But I am more confident in relying what I know from interacting with 500 kids than with a story about one individual when making a general statement.

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Apr 17, 2021 21:43:32   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
larryepage wrote:
With them all day, every day.


Ah! So it is your influence, all day - every day, that is turning them off to the photography us old folks cherish.


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