Is mirrorless really better thand DSLR? (modern versions only)
Apr 9, 2021 17:20:20 #
bbradford
Loc: Wake Forest NC
Paul. I have always found your comments thoughtful and interesting as well as professional. I am confused by your latest. Are you saying every picture you took with a mirrored camera was " cold, heartless,and uncaring ". I have found magic in a lot of your photos.
Best always, Bryan
Best always, Bryan
Apr 9, 2021 17:34:10 #
TriX wrote:
All frames imperfect? Really? With properly calib... (show quote)
I read the first few lines. I figger already knew what’s in the rest of it. Try to avoid writer’s cramp ;-)
Apr 9, 2021 17:42:34 #
TriX wrote:
Actually, an optical viewfinder IS “real-time” In fact, the opposite is true - there will always be a delay between the image captured by the sensor and that displayed electronically in the viewfinder. That lag has been an issue in the past for MILCs, but response has been improved markedly in newer cameras.
My camera has better-than-zero delay. It actually has negative delay. IOW it has a built in time travel device. Jules Verne eat your heart out.
Given that my camera records what happens before and after pressing the shutter button, I just leave it up to the angels dancing on the pinheads.
Apr 9, 2021 18:50:18 #
What I say won't change anyone's feelings or perceptions right or wrong.
But I have used every top pro level rangefinder, SLR and DSLR camera and system from Leica, Nikon and Canon over the past four decades. Then I moved over to fullframe Mirrorless and the best pro level mirrorless from Sony.
In truth and reality, the best mirrorless pro level cameras have now surpassed the best pro level DSLRs in so many ways.
Associated Press realizes that and they have dumped their top pro level Canon DSLRs, and moved to the top pro level fullframe mirrorless gear from Sony, exclusively now for all their staff photographers and videographers worldwide. And the trend among my fellow pros is continuing and will NEVER go back the other way to DSLRs which just can't physically do what mirrorless cameras can do now.
https://www.ap.org/press-releases/2020/ap-to-equip-all-visual-journalists-globally-with-sony-imaging-products
https://alphauniverse.com/stories/why-the-associated-press-just-switched-to-sony/
As an award-winning veteran photojournalist for the past 44 years, I have made wonderful shots with my Nikon, Canon and Leica gear over the years when there was no professional mirrorless gear in existence.
That has all changed, and all the manufacturers realize the facts that mirrorless technology and gear gives their users such great image creating advantages. And the makers have responded to the growing demand for better and better mirrorless gear at both the pro and hobbyist levels.
Nobody has to switch from the DSLR gear they have used, are comfortable with and have long ago paid for. I am not here to say you should switch if your beloved DSLRs give you all you need.
But I am here to say the dominance of DSLRs is long over now, just a fact. DSLRs won't disappear and a few new hobbyist and pro-sumer DSLR models will still be released. But at the top end, the current generations of the top pro DSLRs from Canon and Nikon are likely the last top DSLRs that will ever be made.
Canon and Nikon have already signaled that their next flagship top pro cameras will be mirrorless and that is where they will concentrate their camera tech innovations and lens development. Nikon and Canon both have already retired some DSLR lenses in just the past few weeks.
As a working pro I go for the best gear that allows me to be the most responsive ,creative and innovative in my work. I would never return to any DSLR after using the best top pro mirrorless.
In my Sony A1, the new Sony flagship fullframe mirrorless camera, I can shoot 30fps at 50mp, with no viewfinder blackout, and with 120 AE/AF calculations per second in AF-C. I get a stacked sensor for electronic shooting with no rolling shutter. I get a 1/32000 second shutter speed. I get up to 1/500 sec. flash synch speed. I even now get the first-ever flash shooting ability in electronic shutter. I get a new 8X pixel shift mode that can yield a 400mp image if needed. I get lightning fast AF with AI tracking, Eye-AF for humans, animals, birds.
And I get an EVF with 9.44 million dots and 240fps refresh rate, making any former advantage of an OVF a mute point forever.
Oh, and did I mention it does 8K video without overheating, and so much more.
These are things no DSLR will ever be physically able to do.
Canon and Nikon are bringing out their own great fullframe mirrorless. As has Panasonic. And Fuji is doing great things with their medium format mirrorless cameras. And Sony has patented designs for a curved sensor medium format mirrorless camera system and patented designs (in 2020) for five new medium format mirrorless lenses for that system.
No one should feel belittled if they chose to buy or stick with their trusted DSLR gear. Use what you like and be happy. Make your great shots with your gear and be proud.
But the reality is mirrorless is the future here now .
In addition to being a working pro, I am also a Professor of Photography at a state university with a Master's Degree in Digital Photography from SCAD (Savannah College of Art & Design). I have taught hundreds of students in courses I wrote in Photojournalism, Digital Photography, and even B&W 35mm film photography. I expose my students to all forms of gear, SLRs, DSLRs, mirrorless and video too that the university has for them to use.
Then they can decide for themselves what gear they might want to go further with on their own.
No reason for any of us here in UHH to think we know all there is to know about all gear. I have read many misleading and flat out false statements here in this discussion for and against DSLRs and mirrorless. I am just giving you the benefit of decades of my use of all kinds of gear. Fanboyism or Fangirlism for DSLRs or mirrorless is just natural. And it is natural to want to defend our purchase and user choices, whatever they have been.
There is room for us all, Cheers
https://www.facebook.com/GSWilliamsPhotography
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3048747915213474
But I have used every top pro level rangefinder, SLR and DSLR camera and system from Leica, Nikon and Canon over the past four decades. Then I moved over to fullframe Mirrorless and the best pro level mirrorless from Sony.
In truth and reality, the best mirrorless pro level cameras have now surpassed the best pro level DSLRs in so many ways.
Associated Press realizes that and they have dumped their top pro level Canon DSLRs, and moved to the top pro level fullframe mirrorless gear from Sony, exclusively now for all their staff photographers and videographers worldwide. And the trend among my fellow pros is continuing and will NEVER go back the other way to DSLRs which just can't physically do what mirrorless cameras can do now.
https://www.ap.org/press-releases/2020/ap-to-equip-all-visual-journalists-globally-with-sony-imaging-products
https://alphauniverse.com/stories/why-the-associated-press-just-switched-to-sony/
As an award-winning veteran photojournalist for the past 44 years, I have made wonderful shots with my Nikon, Canon and Leica gear over the years when there was no professional mirrorless gear in existence.
That has all changed, and all the manufacturers realize the facts that mirrorless technology and gear gives their users such great image creating advantages. And the makers have responded to the growing demand for better and better mirrorless gear at both the pro and hobbyist levels.
Nobody has to switch from the DSLR gear they have used, are comfortable with and have long ago paid for. I am not here to say you should switch if your beloved DSLRs give you all you need.
But I am here to say the dominance of DSLRs is long over now, just a fact. DSLRs won't disappear and a few new hobbyist and pro-sumer DSLR models will still be released. But at the top end, the current generations of the top pro DSLRs from Canon and Nikon are likely the last top DSLRs that will ever be made.
Canon and Nikon have already signaled that their next flagship top pro cameras will be mirrorless and that is where they will concentrate their camera tech innovations and lens development. Nikon and Canon both have already retired some DSLR lenses in just the past few weeks.
As a working pro I go for the best gear that allows me to be the most responsive ,creative and innovative in my work. I would never return to any DSLR after using the best top pro mirrorless.
In my Sony A1, the new Sony flagship fullframe mirrorless camera, I can shoot 30fps at 50mp, with no viewfinder blackout, and with 120 AE/AF calculations per second in AF-C. I get a stacked sensor for electronic shooting with no rolling shutter. I get a 1/32000 second shutter speed. I get up to 1/500 sec. flash synch speed. I even now get the first-ever flash shooting ability in electronic shutter. I get a new 8X pixel shift mode that can yield a 400mp image if needed. I get lightning fast AF with AI tracking, Eye-AF for humans, animals, birds.
And I get an EVF with 9.44 million dots and 240fps refresh rate, making any former advantage of an OVF a mute point forever.
Oh, and did I mention it does 8K video without overheating, and so much more.
These are things no DSLR will ever be physically able to do.
Canon and Nikon are bringing out their own great fullframe mirrorless. As has Panasonic. And Fuji is doing great things with their medium format mirrorless cameras. And Sony has patented designs for a curved sensor medium format mirrorless camera system and patented designs (in 2020) for five new medium format mirrorless lenses for that system.
No one should feel belittled if they chose to buy or stick with their trusted DSLR gear. Use what you like and be happy. Make your great shots with your gear and be proud.
But the reality is mirrorless is the future here now .
In addition to being a working pro, I am also a Professor of Photography at a state university with a Master's Degree in Digital Photography from SCAD (Savannah College of Art & Design). I have taught hundreds of students in courses I wrote in Photojournalism, Digital Photography, and even B&W 35mm film photography. I expose my students to all forms of gear, SLRs, DSLRs, mirrorless and video too that the university has for them to use.
Then they can decide for themselves what gear they might want to go further with on their own.
No reason for any of us here in UHH to think we know all there is to know about all gear. I have read many misleading and flat out false statements here in this discussion for and against DSLRs and mirrorless. I am just giving you the benefit of decades of my use of all kinds of gear. Fanboyism or Fangirlism for DSLRs or mirrorless is just natural. And it is natural to want to defend our purchase and user choices, whatever they have been.
There is room for us all, Cheers
https://www.facebook.com/GSWilliamsPhotography
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3048747915213474
Apr 9, 2021 19:18:28 #
What about the ability of the mirrorless to produce much less noise or (grain) in a photo? I have seen many pictures taken with a mirrorless at really high ISO that are so superior to the DSLR. I don't own a mirrorless camera yet. But this ISO performance is compelling.
Apr 9, 2021 19:34:33 #
Apr 9, 2021 21:13:14 #
Greg Biggs wrote:
What about the ability of the mirrorless to produce much less noise or (grain) in a photo? I have seen many pictures taken with a mirrorless at really high ISO that are so superior to the DSLR. I don't own a mirrorless camera yet. But this ISO performance is compelling.
Viewfinder systems do not affect noise or grain. Whatever you have seen, you have seen. But it has zero relation to mirrors, EVFs, or anything concerning the viewing or focusing mechanism of the camera.
Apr 10, 2021 01:23:31 #
Greg Biggs wrote:
What about the ability of the mirrorless to produce much less noise or (grain) in a photo? I have seen many pictures taken with a mirrorless at really high ISO that are so superior to the DSLR. I don't own a mirrorless camera yet. But this ISO performance is compelling.
That has nothing to do with being mirrorless. It’s because of ever improving sensor technology. It just so happens that most mirrorless cameras are newer models have have those improved sensors.
Apr 10, 2021 09:51:12 #
larryepage
Loc: North Texas area
SuperflyTNT wrote:
That has nothing to do with being mirrorless. It’s because of ever improving sensor technology. It just so happens that most mirrorless cameras are newer models have have those improved sensors.
Sensor technology is really pretty mature right now. Improvements that might help picture quality are being immediately traded away for higher pixel count, in almost every case. I have cameras with sensors from various times over the past seven years. One has what is still a current sensor. There is no difference in picture "character" among any of these cameras. There has been a stop or so of increase in dynamic range, but that is pretty much irrelevant in all but the absolutely most difficult situations. The newer cameras do have a couple of new features which are pretty nice, but the oldest one in the batch can still capture just about anything that is really worth capturing.
Apr 10, 2021 10:30:09 #
TriX wrote:
Want to find me an autofocus speed comparison between the fastest MILCs and the fastest DSLRs? Not in the 2000s, right now. Every manufacturer seems to be claiming the fastest AF, but please publish actual measurements by an independent source. And remember, the lens has to be specified as well as the light level and the body.
Just like you di... Opps, My bad. You did not.
Apr 10, 2021 17:54:09 #
larryepage wrote:
Sensor technology is really pretty mature right no... (show quote)
Take a look at the low light capability of a Nikon Z6 or a Sony Alpha 1 or a Canon R5. There’s definitely an improvement. Canon would be selling so many of those f/11 long primes if it weren’t for the capabilities of that R5 sensor.
Apr 10, 2021 19:22:39 #
larryepage
Loc: North Texas area
SuperflyTNT wrote:
Take a look at the low light capability of a Nikon Z6 or a Sony Alpha 1 or a Canon R5. There’s definitely an improvement. Canon would be selling so many of those f/11 long primes if it weren’t for the capabilities of that R5 sensor.
The Z6 is certainly an example where the advance hasn't been traded for pixels. But that was a choice that is also not format dependent. The same advance could be easily implemented in a DSLR or some sort of point-and-shoot, for that matter.
Look...if you or anyone else finds the need to take a loss on your perfectly functional DSLR or whatever else you might be shooting and spend a few thousand dollars on a new systen, that is your (or their) business. More power to you, as many of my relatives are fond of saying.
Just stop the propaganda seeking to justify the decision in your own mind by trying to tell me I am an idiot for not falling in line behind you when I know it isn't necessary.
If my house burns down some day and I have to replace all my equipment, it will probably have to be with a mirrorless system, or with whatever newer and even "better" system the manufacturers come up with by then. Until that time, I'm fine.
Really.
Apr 10, 2021 20:38:53 #
larryepage wrote:
The Z6 is certainly an example where the advance h... (show quote)
This thread and every thread for the past 20 years is about tech. It's about more resolution, better performing sensors and greater camera automation.
I'm certainly not going to change to mirrorless. There are literally no advantages for what I want from this hobby whatsoever. Digital was a switch I reluctantly made and there simply wasn't a choice for me back then.
Today, I can do as I please. I don't want the tech. I don't want the advancements. I want the challenge!
I want to deal with the deficiencies of older DSLR cameras. I want to deal with noise. I want to be forced to make decisions and work around the limitations of my gear. This is what makes photography fun for me.
I find the end photographic result to be secondary to the journey of getting there. This is what gives me enjoyment and keeps me entertained. I'm not in search of the ultimate 200mp point and shoot camera.
I think it's very sad tech has replaced technique over the past 20 years.
Long live the DSLR.
Apr 10, 2021 20:44:32 #
All artists are willing to suffer for their work, but why make it worse with a DSLR?
Apr 10, 2021 20:48:57 #
CHG_CANON wrote:
All artists are willing to suffer for their work, but why make it worse with a DSLR?
One must suffer to appreciate what one has. If one only takes the forward direction, one misses all that is around them.
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