Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC

Chris I understand your concern here...
However have you personally dealt with any Etsy vendors?
If not then I question you motives here... a.k.a. this post resembles that of a troll rather than one based on authoritative wisdom. Chris you have been on UHH long enough to know better.

Food for thought Chris... I'm in the long drawn out complex process of opening a "Case" on Etsy and escalating it for redress of grievances before turning to resolving my issue through my CCard provider.

Please realize that Etsy is for the "Little Guy" mom and pop shops primarily focusing on "antiques:
Chris please take the time to research Etsy's polices and protocols before you post a "Rant" based on a causal browse of obvious scams... These same scams can be found on Craigs List and even eBay.

Why did I purchase an item on Etsy? Simple, it is a very low demand vintage lens from days gone by... Even KEH didn't have any in working order only "As is" or "Bargain". So I took a chance and invested $50 (including shipping) in hopes that the photographs of the item were accurate. Sadly I've not received the item in a timely manner nor has the vendor replied to my emails requesting a tracking number.

Etsy has come to the rescue... And I'm amid that long arduous journey of escalating my "Case" through Etsy's protocols. I have faith in Etsy's mission purpose... And if all else fails I've amassed an audit trail of my efforts (in good faith) to support a claim to void the purchase via my CCard. I've only had to do this once in the last decade and it took time but I got my purchase refunded in full.

Bottom Line Chris? Please refrain from criticizing a long established entity unless you have first hand knowledge and have taken the time to come up the curve on the complexities of Etsy who's mission is to allow the "Little Guys" to sell vintage stuff on-line.

Here is a link to Etsy's resolution protocol Chris...
https://help.etsy.com/hc/en-us/articles/115013375668?segment=shopping
I recommend you invest some quality time here before you make uncorroborated claims about Etsy.

I wish you well on your photographic journey Chris...

Bill_de Loc: US

Those unreasonable post serve a purpose. This post just gave them publicity. Even though it was meant as a warning, somebody who has never been to the site will go there just to check it out. Some will be sucked in to a "good" deal.

It didn't cost Etsy a dime. And they got their name out there in a place restricted to discussing photography.

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rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA

I've never bought on Etsy, but I use eBay all the time. Over the last decade, I got burnt maybe once... one simply needs to shop wisely and know the risks.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Thomas, I have actually sold on Etsy, so I have a familiarity with the company stretching back years, so let me explain what drove my post. After viewing some of Paul’s recent excellent B&Ws using a Canon EF300 f2.8L, I was doing some price shopping, especially comparing the early pre IS versions and later IS enabled versions of this lens, when I happened on what appeared to be an incredible deal - $800 for the IS version of this lens which typically sells in the $2,000 region. I went to the site, and the image was clearly a stock image (I’ve been able to locate it elsewhere), and I began to delve into the seller. nothing but an email address, no past sales, no contact information of any kind, no address. And as you may know, unlike Amazon or eBay where there are references (good and bad) and the number of sales, percentage of positives, etc., there is nothing on Etsy, and clicking on the return policy tab, again nothing. So with the thought that it could possibly be legit, I wrote the seller asking athe return policy and if the lens was fully functional. I received a 2 line reply that the lens worked and it could be returned if it didn’t. I then wrote the seller asking for any information that I could verify (address, previous sales and any reference of any kind). I indicated that I would go through with the sale but needed some assurance that I would be able to contact the seller with any issues going forward. There was no response (and as of last night the lens was still for sale). Out of curiosity, I then started looking at other equipment, and from the 3 examples I posted in my original post, it was clear that these and many other cameras for sale could not possibly be legit (unless you believe you can buy a 5D4, tripod, 24-105L and 16-35L for less than $900.). It wasn’t just a few examples, many of the digital cameras I looked at were clearly so underpriced, that they could not possibly be legit, and in every case, the seller had no previous sales, no published return policy or anything but an email address. In contrast, when I sold on Etsy, I had all these things published. Finally I wrote Etsy asking for any reassurance that the seller was legit and also asked if they monitored listings and had any idea how many among the cameras could not be legit. No reply as of yet. I also went through all their policies, and was not reassured by any means. I could go into detail about the various support links on their site, but I’ll spare you.

What I came away with, which I think would be the same conclusion from most reasonable photographers, that the camera section was filled with obvious scams. I’ve shopped on many sites including Craigslist for many years, but never seen anything as blatant as this. Now it may be a mom and pop site, but in my opinion, if you run a storefront, then you need to make a comprehensive effort to see that the products and sellers represented are honest. Of course I don’t expect them to be experts on every possible product, but just an occasional sampling of listings vs typical selling price would immediately show up these huge red flags. Also, if you’re going to allow advertising of expensive items, then I believe you have a responsibility to run your enterprise in such a way that customers are protected from obvious scams. At the very least, every item should have a clear return policy published, customer ratings, a way to report fraud and appropriate contact information. And if you can’t do that, then you have no business conducting a site which may snare the uninformed. It’s no different from setting up a flea market where a percentage of the items are clearly stolen. So to conclude, this isn’t just one posted item, the store is filled with obviously fake deals, and there is no real policing or customer protection being implemented, and that sort of business is not acceptable to me and shouldn’t be to anyone else. Thomas, I respect your opinions and your work, and I take your point(s) and appreciate your response, but this is one case where gentlemen will have to agree to disagree. I think we have an obligation to expose criminal activity when we see it to prevent others from being hurt, and I don’t believe that is either “trolling” or or attempting to impose my views on others, so I stand by my original post but continue to wish you well,

Chris

dadaist

And older ones, that are reborn!!

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Well Bill, I didn’t think of it that way, and you may be correct, but I certainly hope that anyone on this forum that looked at the examples I provided can see that there’s a problem and will be ultra careful.

Btw, if anyone who reads this thread goes to the site and successfully purchases any of the items I listed, and they are legit, please report back on your fantastic deal, and I’ll retract everything I said.

Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb

They didn't say new or old, working or not.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Not sure who you’re responding to, but if you’re referring to the items I mentioned in my original post, I can tell you for a fact that the 300 f2.8 was said to be working in perfect condition by the seller in an email to me.

Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb

I was responding, that 42ndSt Photo never said new or used or working or not, just a cheep price. That make the add legitimate.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

I get it - thanks.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

BTW, lest anyone think Etsy is a “mom and pop” operation, they have 1240 employees and an annual revenue of 607 million dollars (source Wiki), so out of all those employees, you’d think there would be a few that could monitor the sale of high end items - we aren’t talking about arts and crafts here, which was the original business model focus as I understand it.

Hal81 Loc: Bucks County, Pa.

Years ago a lot of the adds in most of the photo mags are from the gray market. A guy I worked with bought a popular camera from one of these adds. He did get the camera but with nothing else. No strap, no case and not even a book about the camera.. Buyer beware...

lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA

I never really have problems with Amazon. Sometimes their third party vendors mess up. Amazon always fixes the problem or gives me a refund or price reduction. Those making the errors may not be as happy. But as far as I know I have never been scammed on Amazon or eBay. But that does not mean I have never spotted possible scams.

lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA

As I recall when esty started it was a lot of self craft stuff. Homemade jewelry and the like. A couple people I know sold crafts on there. I think I bought one item ok on there long ago. Yes, now it seems more questionable. I never tried Craig's list as it seemed too unstructured. I've had mixed luck on the old Recycler.

PhotogHobbyist Loc: Bradford, PA

I almost got burned, but ended up just getting singed. Went for a deal on a FB page to buy a used film camera with a nifty 50 1.2 lens and a couple other minor things. Camera and lens described as in very good condition. Negotiated the deal for $70 including shipping. I sent the money and the guy blocked me on FB. I was advised to contact the local police which I did and they helped recover my money and I think scared the bejeebers out of the scammer. It took a couple months, but I did get my money back. I learned a lesson about buying online.