Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
World wide camera sales less than 10% from 2010
Page <prev 2 of 11 next> last>>
Jan 21, 2021 08:23:08   #
JRiepe Loc: Southern Illinois
 
I think the reason is quite simple. As we were growing up our device for taking pictures was a camera. We would buy what we could afford and gradually move up as we could afford to. But for many years now the main device or only device for taking pictures for the majority is a cell phone. When you're growing up using your cell phone as your camera when you want a better camera you buy a more expensive phone. DSLR's and mirrorless will be purchased by only more serious photographers.

Reply
Jan 21, 2021 08:29:30   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
The article also says:

... the digital camera market was shipping 121.5 million units, with a vast majority of those sales of cameras with a built-in lens.

Those are most likely a good portion of the sales being replaced by cell phones.

--

---

Reply
Jan 21, 2021 08:39:43   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
gouldopfl wrote:
I just read an article from Petapixel that says Canon is getting ready for a world where world wide camera sales will be less than 10 million units compared to 121 million units 10 years ago. I would assume that much of this is due to smartphone sales.

It makes me wonder how much of this is loss is from sales of lower end cameras rather than the mainstream cameras used by hobbyist and professionals. Has the market significantly contracted at those levels?


It would be nice and more honest if they actually gave data on the type of cameras they are talking about. Say DSRL, P&S, MILC, Super Zooms, Digital Medium Format ... vs SmartPhone Cameras. From what I've read in the past the sales of the lowest end cameras have dropped off the most. Plus sales for film 11x14" view cameras is probably zero per year.

Well, if real cameras become rare, then perhaps those of us who do serious photography and art will be appreciated more. There have since the early days of photography been snapshots and photographs or photo art. I still use my Prime lenses more than my Zooms. With my arthritis weight is an issue but tiny size (cell phone or compact) are no help either.

Reply
 
 
Jan 21, 2021 08:53:30   #
traderjohn Loc: New York City
 
Delderby wrote:
So "they" are not photographers (or artists). "They" are full of idle chat - for now, not tomorrow. Their pics are just part of that idle chat.


You might add they know that if you use a device that is comprised of metal, plastic, or versions of and various electronic sensors then remove the item that houses the picture after you have adjusted this and that. You now insert this "card" in a card reader or other device then transfer those pictures to who knows how many software programs devised by someone else's genius make a variety of additional adjustments through the use of the program's sliders on a Wacom tablet. Then after the use of a few other photo enhancing programs you have bought you now look at this picture and declare yourself an artist. No..you are a photographer, not an artist. Ego gratification aside.

Reply
Jan 21, 2021 10:41:59   #
Retired CPO Loc: Travel full time in an RV
 
traderjohn wrote:
You might add they know that if you use a device that is comprised of metal, plastic, or versions of and various electronic sensors then remove the item that houses the picture after you have adjusted this and that. You now insert this "card" in a card reader or other device then transfer those pictures to who knows how many software programs devised by someone else's genius make a variety of additional adjustments through the use of the program's sliders on a Wacom tablet. Then after the use of a few other photo enhancing programs you have bought you now look at this picture and declare yourself an artist. No..you are a photographer, not an artist. Ego gratification aside.
You might add they know that if you use a device t... (show quote)


So what about those of us who shoot and post/print SOOC or with minimal manipulations? I have enough ego to think (and say) that some of my best work, jpeg only, is art. What say you?

Reply
Jan 21, 2021 10:43:24   #
Retired CPO Loc: Travel full time in an RV
 
Delderby wrote:
So "they" are not photographers (or artists). "They" are full of idle chat - for now, not tomorrow. Their pics are just part of that idle chat.



Reply
Jan 21, 2021 10:44:50   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Retired CPO wrote:
So what about those of us who shoot and post/print SOOC or with minimal manipulations? I have enough ego to think (and say) that some of my best work, jpeg only, is art. What say you?

Adept at photography?

Reply
 
 
Jan 21, 2021 11:21:24   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
gouldopfl wrote:
I just read an article from Petapixel that says Canon is getting ready for a world where world wide camera sales will be less than 10 million units compared to 121 million units 10 years ago. I would assume that much of this is due to smartphone sales.

It makes me wonder how much of this is loss is from sales of lower end cameras rather than the mainstream cameras used by hobbyist and professionals. Has the market significantly contracted at those levels?


I've said it before here, and I will say it again. Based on my daily experience with both kids and young adults, most of what is going on in the world of dedicated photography is coming from lazy research and faulty conclusions. The consequences are the self-inflicted results of not understanding the market.

I am surrounded every day by both young adult teachers (and a few older ones) and kids. Every one of them knows how to skillfully use his or her cell phone to produce images that are as good or better than many of those posted on this forum. They are also very good (and very comfortable) at both shooting and editing videos to tell a story. Their story telling is a lot better than most of the story telling here. And many of them really do prefer to do it with a "real camera," believe it or not.

As a result, many of these folks do have and use "real cameras." They ask me questions all the time about how to do "this thing" or "that thing," or how to do it better. We generally work through the question together and figure out how to do what they want to do.

What we run into, though, over and over again, is that the lower cost cameras that they tend to use are "under good," and the better cameras are "over priced." We quickly find a solution to their question on my D500 or even my D300s, but then struggle to figure out how to do it on their D3500 or D5300 or whatever camera they happen to have. The ease of the solution available to me versus the complexity that they have to go through becomes a disincentive to them. The gap between the two kills both the interest and the progression that the manufacturers intend to see as they seek to migrate their customers to more capable models. Instead of generating another sale, it pushes the new photographer back to the cell phone.

Nikon has announced that it is going to discontinue its low-end DSLRs and focus only on high-end models. We have yet to see anything remotely resembling an entry-level mirrorless interchangeable lens camera from them or from anyone else. In my opinion, discontinuing the DSLRs is a good idea. They are poorly designed, do not offer a smooth migration path to the better cameras, and are just in general a dead-end choice, even though they are, without question, capable of taking great photographs. But if my only experience were with a D3500, it would certainly not inspire or motivate me to fork over the money for a D500, at not least on its own merits. (Note that I cannot speak to the bridge camera models or any of the recent true 'point and shoot' models.)

Affordable entry-level equipment is critical for bringing new practitioners into a hobby (or profession). But it has to be both capable and usable. And it has to offer a reasonable range of basic features. And the step-up products cannot be over priced. Today's entry-level cameras do not do that. Nor do they offer a seamless upgrade path that does not require essentially starting over to learn the basics of the process. And the higher end cameras are significantly over priced (sale pricing proves that). If the manufacturers fix those things, they will take the first steps to fixing what is wrong. The market need not be dead. The desire is still there. The obstacles just need to be removed.

Reply
Jan 21, 2021 11:29:57   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
If you want to make enemies, say something true about Nikon.

Reply
Jan 21, 2021 12:04:41   #
gouldopfl
 
Affordable entry-level equipment is critical for bringing new practitioners into a hobby (or profession).

On the Canon side they will continue to make the T7I which is a 24.2 mp crop sensor DSLR. For around 500.00 you can get that plus 2 kit lenses.

Their M series have a couple but the latest is over 600.00.

There are rumors that there is a R7 in development which will be a R mount crop sensor. Two problems they will need to resolve first IMO is it needs to be in the 500-575 range and Canon must start to make inexpensive crop sensor lenses along with the current adapter which can seemlessly attach ef-s lenses.
I believe that there are people who think a camera has to be expensive to be good. Take the Canon EOS-RP. This is actually a pretty good low prices FF 24.2 mp mirrorless camera with things like built in bracketing and focus stacking. If they could lower the price to 699.00 that would be a great price for a starter FF camera. Same issue on lenses though, not enough inexpensive
glass.

Reply
Jan 21, 2021 13:31:56   #
Bbarn Loc: Ohio
 
larryepage wrote:
I've said it before here, and I will say it again...


I read with considerable interest your comments above about the difficulties encountered by users of mid-level DSLRs when attempting to make certain operational changes on their cameras. You stated that while the desired changes can be accomplished quickly on a D300 or D500, making the same changes on a D3xxx or D5xxx proved frustrating (and made them want to go back to their familiar cell phone).

Could you provide one or two examples of those things you easily accomplished on the D300/D500, but found difficult on the D3xxx/D5xxx? As you suggested, understanding this could open up more opportunities for camera sales to those wanting to improve their skills (and results).

Reply
 
 
Jan 21, 2021 13:40:48   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Bbarn wrote:
I read with considerable interest your comments above about the difficulties encountered by users of mid-level DSLRs when attempting to make certain operational changes on their cameras. You stated that while the desired changes can be accomplished quickly on a D300 or D500, making the same changes on a D3xxx or D5xxx proved frustrating (and made them want to go back to their familiar cell phone).

Could you provide one or two examples of those things you easily accomplished on the D300/D500, but found difficult on the D3xxx/D5xxx? As you suggested, understanding this could open up more opportunities for camera sales to those wanting to improve their skills (and results).
I read with considerable interest your comments ab... (show quote)


Larry probably has a specific example in mind as it's been a while since I shot a D3300 or a similar EOS Rebel body. Typically, the lack of external controls means you don't have dedicated buttons / dials for controlling individual settings. Take exposure, is there a dial for shutterspeed that is separate from aperture that is separate from ISO? When shooting in manual exposure, having separate controls on the camera body that you can adjust with the camera held to your eye in a shooting position is critical for quick adjustments. The same goes for changing the AF, for example, moving from a single AF point to a group and repositioning within the frame, all with buttons / dials on the body that can be reached / adjusted with the camera held to your eye. If you have to go lower the camera and go into a menu and can't reassign that function to a body control, you're going to miss something in the action while fiddling with that control in the menu.

Reply
Jan 21, 2021 14:16:03   #
robertjerl Loc: Corona, California
 
Let us just hope they don't decide it is because their cameras are made too well and last too long.

Reply
Jan 21, 2021 14:58:42   #
d3200prime
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Larry probably has a specific example in mind as it's been a while since I shot a D3300 or a similar EOS Rebel body. Typically, the lack of external controls means you don't have dedicated buttons / dials for controlling individual settings. Take exposure, is there a dial for shutterspeed that is separate from aperture that is separate from ISO? When shooting in manual exposure, having separate controls on the camera body that you can adjust with the camera held to your eye in a shooting position is critical for quick adjustments. The same goes for changing the AF, for example, moving from a single AF point to a group and repositioning within the frame, all with buttons / dials on the body that can be reached / adjusted with the camera held to your eye. If you have to go lower the camera and go into a menu and can't reassign that function to a body control, you're going to miss something in the action while fiddling with that control in the menu.
Larry probably has a specific example in mind as i... (show quote)



Reply
Jan 21, 2021 20:41:49   #
rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
 
traderjohn wrote:
You might add they know that if you use a device that is comprised of metal, plastic, or versions of and various electronic sensors then remove the item that houses the picture after you have adjusted this and that. You now insert this "card" in a card reader or other device then transfer those pictures to who knows how many software programs devised by someone else's genius make a variety of additional adjustments through the use of the program's sliders on a Wacom tablet. Then after the use of a few other photo enhancing programs you have bought you now look at this picture and declare yourself an artist. No..you are a photographer, not an artist. Ego gratification aside.
You might add they know that if you use a device t... (show quote)


Selecting the moment, deciding on composition - those can be artistic choices. And if they are, then one qualifies as an artist.

Reply
Page <prev 2 of 11 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.