JBRIII

I am not an economist so if someone is maybe they have an answer to this. From what I have learned, no one knows how to raise a essentially economy from nowhere to developed without exports. Countries start by exporting, reach a level where this no longer works and spend 20yrs or so stuck where they are as they develop an internal economy (called middle glass funk or something?). All the Asian Tigers went thru this, also many were dictatorships for a long time.
This method of development while having effects on US economy (remember rise of Japan) was one thing with smaller countries, but now we have both smaller ones and huge ones (China, India, others?) using exports to climb and I do not think there is enough developed? world to absorb it all (my opinion).
I have believe that our deficit spending is directly related to imports. Ifvwe only spent what we have, either we would have to make more to export ourselves, or we'd run out of money to spend. It seems to me Asian economies have recovered because we are printing money and buying their goods with it.
The real question is whether when we collapse, we go alone or the whole world goes with us in another great depression.

wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado

Right now, there are no successful economic models that will truly work in a pandemic. In ever country, kids stay home to prevent spreading the virus, moms quit jobs to stay with them at home, and there is less spending because there is less money coming in (and with single moms and dads, no money coming in). Being in the defense industry, I have to work and expose myself at 70 plus years of age since I am being listed as "essential personnel". I am one of the "haves" and, therefore, I will do my best to spend that money to keep the economy going. Both Trump and Bidden recognized that shots and getting children back in school are absolutely essential to this economy's recovery and the country's future. And it is no different in any other country except those that are not able to produce or get the vaccine themselves. And that can cause a problem too by allowing mutations that
the vaccines are less effective against. That also means the "have" countries have to share the vaccine with the "have not" countries or risk making the vaccine ineffective. As you can see, pandemics really complicate economies world wide. My personal feelings are that teachers should also be either 1A or 1B in classification and should be vaccined right behind the 75 and older (which means they will get vaccinated before even me). That way the schools can start opening which will help the economy right away. That and 250 vaccine shots ASAP will start bring our economy back towards being "normal". This will require all of the world's economies to go to deficit spending which is also one of the pains of a pandemic. A quicker pandenic recovery will benefit that country (hopefully ours) the most. That is why at least 100 million shots in 100 days is a good idea. A better one, which due to manufacturing is not truly possible, would be 200 million shots in 100 days. Until then, comparing one country's economy to another becomes pure speculation. There is always the chance that a variant will basically wipe out a country and come back to haunt all the other countries of the world. What kind of economy does any country have then?
Until then,...

markjay

There is no logic to pricing - so please stop trying to be logical.

If you think there is - then please explain why iPhones are all made in China, but the most expensive market in the world to buy an iPhone is China ??

And by the way - which market in the world has the lowest prices for Canon and Nikon cameras? Also China.

Which also explains that the camera is far overpriced everywhere else, as I have been saying. But in China, even the company owned Canon or Nikon stores are very low cost. Its because the camera companies are trying to develop camera market in China where there was basically none. I dont know if they are selling the cameras at cost, or even below cost, but they much lower priced.

I suspect they could sell the cameras for the same price in the US - but why bother if they can rip off customers and get ridiculous high prices.

And finally, using your example, there would be a difference in pricing. I live in China. many stores sell the same products from multiple markets of manufacture, at different prices.

Buy a can of coke here in a supermarket - made in China where coke has a huge business, and it is about .40 cents a can. But buy a can of coke that is on the shelf right next to it - looks exactly the same but there is small print that says it was made in japan - and that can of coke will cost you about $1.25. Three times the price. The cost was probably close the the same on each for Coke. Which offers greater value? The Japanese coke is overpriced - just like the cameras sold in the US.

Bbarn Loc: Ohio

If there is no logic to pricing, then you can't use logic to claim something is overpriced... just as you did in your examples.

markjay

Thats a ridiculous comment. Just because companies do not price products logically, does not mean they dont overcharge. If Canon charges $1,000 for a camera body in the US, and charges $700 for the same camera body in China, is the US camera overpriced ? Anyone that wants to buy it for $1,000 in the US is welcome to do so. They may think that price is fair - because they cant get it anywhere else with a US warranty - but the fact is, its overpriced.

markjay

Thats a ridiculous comment. Just because companies do not price products logically, does not mean they dont overcharge. If Canon charges $1,000 for a camera body in the US, and charges $700 for the same camera body in China, is the US camera overpriced ? Anyone that wants to buy it for $1,000 in the US is welcome to do so. They may think that price is fair - because they cant get it anywhere else with a US warranty - but the fact is, its overpriced.

Bbarn Loc: Ohio

Prices are just prices. They can be based on many factors. I don't presume to know them all, and therefore cannot say with certainty that something is overpriced. In your example immediately above it's possible that a camera is priced less in one location because the company wishes to sell more cameras in that place. If that lower price is at cost, or at a loss, does that mean it's overpriced everywhere else?

markjay

To make it simple, assume there are only 2 markets.
If you price a camera at cost in 1 market, and with a profitability in the second market, is the second market overpriced ? The answer is yes, because the pricing in the second market is higher than it should be because the second market has to cover the profits from both markets.
If the camera body is $700 at cost (or even a loss leader) in China, and it is $1,000 in the US (we can then assume the profitability is $300 per unit in the US). The US is subsidizing the marketing efforts in China. Meaning it is overpriced.
Unless you dont mind paying in the US to support Canon's market development elsewhere. If that is part of your pricing equation than the US price is not overpriced.

Bbarn Loc: Ohio

I fully understand what you are suggesting, but think you are off-base. There are numerous factors affecting product prices, and neither you nor I are familiar enough with them to say a manufacturer is "ripping off customers". Plus, there are enough independent camera companies competing to keep pricing in check. I'm glad companies are free to set pricing as they choose and offer the products they wish without being told the same by do-gooders.

markjay

OK - if you believe the camera companies are not ripping you off in the US - the great. Nothing is overpriced to you ! Buy up!

BebuLamar

How much less expensive is a Nikon or Canon camera in China? Give me a price example please!

JBRIII

I have gotten books that have been labeled for X market only, India I think, all straight English, and there are Canon cameras sold which are labelled as non US, but are cheaper.

markjay

Like everything - it depends. You cannot say that everything is 25% less. When a new model arrives like a Canon R5/6, they are about 10-12% less. Older models (but still in the current line) drop to about 25% below US prices. I only follow Canon - but I have heard the discounting is even more extreme for Nikon. And of course in China, everything is highly negotiable. Unless you are in a company owned flagship store, any independent camera shop will discount if you are there in person and want to negotiate with them.

I coincidentally live across the street from the only Photographic mall in Shanghai. It is a 5 floor mall that only sells cameras and anything related to photography. There are probably 25-30 shops that sell cameras and Canon products. Interestingly, many shops sell many brands but none sell both Canon and Nikon. Must be a requirement to get supply. Anyway - with 25 shops selling Canon, it is easy to negotiate. There are no fixed prices in a mall with 25 Canon shops. There is an entire floor for small accessories shops and an entire floor for just lighting products - amateur up to major professional studio lighting. Profoto as a huge shop for just their own products. It is an amazing place.

markjay

Yes - this is a huge game from the camera companies.
They control the game by not honoring warranties out of the country where the camera is bought.
The prices of iPhones differ in all countries - but at least Apple honors a warranty globally.