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Cartwright Air Station, Labrador in 1964-1965
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Jan 18, 2021 15:32:32   #
David in Dallas Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
 
Sinewsworn wrote:
Managed the DEW line sites-visited a few, too while stationed at CFB North Bay, Ont. We had the successor to SAGE-the ROCC system. Used the old radars and newer ones as well. FPS-20 had a number of spinoffs through the 1970s. Then Continental defense went the way of the dodo bird as the new generation of fighters (F-15 et al) came on line. Ever see the FPS-35? Great trip down memory lane thanx for sharing.
Thanks for your nice comments. No, I never saw a FPS-35, but I was in charge of a FPS-24 for a while. The FPS-20 was actually a mod (a rebuild, really) of the FPS-3, and had dozens of modifications, including several only to Canadian versions. There was a project before I left radar to rename all the different numbered versions to be just FPS-20x, where the "x" was a letter. I attempted to map the changes but was only partially successful.

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Jan 18, 2021 16:08:27   #
Sinewsworn Loc: Port Orchard, WA
 
David in Dallas wrote:
Thanks for your nice comments. No, I never saw a FPS-35, but I was in charge of a FPS-24 for a while. The FPS-20 was actually a mod (a rebuild, really) of the FPS-3, and had dozens of modifications, including several only to Canadian versions. There was a project before I left radar to rename all the different numbered versions to be just FPS-20x, where the "x" was a letter. I attempted to map the changes but was only partially successful.


FPS-35 could (and did I witnessed it) detect aircraft over 1500 miles distant! Antenna too big to fit under any domes. Five large Diesel engines needed to push that huge antenna.
We used to place dark fabric pieces n the triangle-shaped parts that made up the radome. Patterns included jack o' lanterns, evil faces and others. Did not effect the performance of the radar but when letup at night the effects were wondrous! I have photos somewhere...

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Jan 18, 2021 18:32:15   #
David in Dallas Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
 
Sinewsworn wrote:
FPS-35 could (and did I witnessed it) detect aircraft over 1500 miles distant! Antenna too big to fit under any domes. Five large Diesel engines needed to push that huge antenna.
We used to place dark fabric pieces n the triangle-shaped parts that made up the radome. Patterns included jack o' lanterns, evil faces and others. Did not effect the performance of the radar but when letup at night the effects were wondrous! I have photos somewhere...
I think you might have confused the OTH-B and FPS-35 radars. Although I never saw one, I am familiar with the specifications of the FPS-35 and it was a 200-mile radar, not 1500 miles. It had a PRF of 333/sec, which limited its range to about 240 miles. Its antenna was no bigger than that of the FPS-24, and 2 of those did have radomes built to cover them (with a separate support structure); none of the FPS-35s were located in places deemed to need radome protection from high winds. I don't know the drive mechanics for the FPS-35 antenna, but the FPS-24 used 4 large electric motors. The diesels you mentioned were probably driving the generators to power the radar and those motors. There is only 1 surviving example of a FPS-35 antenna--it is located on the tower at Montauk Point, New York. None of the FPS-24 antennae have survived, but some of the towers are still extant.

I'm assuming the black triangle trick was used on the FPS-20 radome. I thought of it in Labrador, but never did it. It would have been quite effective, though. (My Commander did not have much of a sense of humor. . . .)

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Jan 18, 2021 22:12:10   #
Sinewsworn Loc: Port Orchard, WA
 
David in Dallas wrote:
I think you might have confused the OTH-B and FPS-35 radars. Although I never saw one, I am familiar with the specifications of the FPS-35 and it was a 200-mile radar, not 1500 miles. It had a PRF of 333/sec, which limited its range to about 240 miles. Its antenna was no bigger than that of the FPS-24, and 2 of those did have radomes built to cover them (with a separate support structure); none of the FPS-35s were located in places deemed to need radome protection from high winds. I don't know the drive mechanics for the FPS-35 antenna, but the FPS-24 used 4 large electric motors. The diesels you mentioned were probably driving the generators to power the radar and those motors. There is only 1 surviving example of a FPS-35 antenna--it is located on the tower at Montauk Point, New York. None of the FPS-24 antennae have survived, but some of the towers are still extant.

I'm assuming the black triangle trick was used on the FPS-20 radome. I thought of it in Labrador, but never did it. It would have been quite effective, though. (My Commander did not have much of a sense of humor. . . .)
I think you might have confused the OTH-B and FPS-... (show quote)


Different times and locations. The FPS -35 had a mode for long range missile detection. Antenna did not rotate it scanned from side to side covering just a few azimuths. Not used other than some tests. Fortuna AFS, ND June 1972. Part of a never implemented Gap Filler system. More of a mobile radar guy. An old FPS-20 was installed at Calumet AFS, MI 1984. And an FPS-6! I managed to convince the installation approving authority to include an AN/62C ppi. Ran some ad hoc air to air practice with the Minnesota National Guard F-4s. Made boring duty tolerable.

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Jan 18, 2021 23:28:48   #
David in Dallas Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
 
Sinewsworn wrote:
Different times and locations. The FPS -35 had a mode for long range missile detection. Antenna did not rotate it scanned from side to side covering just a few azimuths. Not used other than some tests. Fortuna AFS, ND June 1972. Part of a never implemented Gap Filler system. More of a mobile radar guy. An old FPS-20 was installed at Calumet AFS, MI 1984. And an FPS-6! I managed to convince the installation approving authority to include an AN/62C ppi. Ran some ad hoc air to air practice with the Minnesota National Guard F-4s. Made boring duty tolerable.
Different times and locations. The FPS -35 had a m... (show quote)
I was not aware of that. Thanks.

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Jan 19, 2021 01:56:00   #
Sinewsworn Loc: Port Orchard, WA
 
David in Dallas wrote:
I was not aware of that. Thanks.


We had a few other interesting events that summer.

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Jan 19, 2021 08:54:23   #
David in Dallas Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
 
Sinewsworn wrote:
We had a few other interesting events that summer.
I see.

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Jan 19, 2021 13:13:01   #
Dave H2
 
Excellent. I flew the seaward extension of that dew line in 1960-62 out of Argentia Newfoundland. Fun times for a young Naval Aviator.
Thanks for your service up there.
Dave

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Jan 19, 2021 13:37:19   #
David in Dallas Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
 
Dave H2 wrote:
Excellent. I flew the seaward extension of that dew line in 1960-62 out of Argentia Newfoundland. Fun times for a young Naval Aviator.
Thanks for your service up there.
Dave
Thank you. And thanks for your service, too.

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Jan 19, 2021 14:32:08   #
JimRPhoto Loc: Raleigh NC
 
David, thank you for the links to the two interesting sites about the Cold War radar installations. Very informative. Not something I would have thought to seek out. I was sent the other direction to the hot and humid South Pacific area. Best. JimR

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Jan 19, 2021 20:25:06   #
David in Dallas Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
 
JimRPhoto wrote:
David, thank you for the links to the two interesting sites about the Cold War radar installations. Very informative. Not something I would have thought to seek out. I was sent the other direction to the hot and humid South Pacific area. Best. JimR
Jim, you're welcome. I'm pleased you enjoyed them and my other photos. Both those sites have been essentially returned to nature, although a few concrete foundations still existed in Labrador in 2005. Life on those radar stations was not particularly dangerous, except from the climate and/or wild animals, but they were not resort vacations, either (with a very few exceptions). Many of them were at locations both remote and inhospitable, but the Air Force did attempt to make them habitable.

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