Frames vs. Mats (Page 2): It’s not the air drying that’s causing the change in dimensions (although I’m sure there is some change) - it’s the planing of each surface to turn rough...

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

photoman022 wrote:

I don't know why a company selling mat board won't sell the size advertised BUT I do know why 2x4 lumber is called 2x4 (although it is smaller). The lumber is measured to the stated size while it is wet and is then dried (either air dried or kiln dried); when the lumber dries it shrinks. As you say, anyone who's ever worked with lumber knows that it is smaller than the nominal size.

It’s not the air drying that’s causing the change in dimensions (although I’m sure there is some change) - it’s the planing of each surface to turn rough lumber into finished lumber...

Quixdraw Loc: x

Check Blick Art Supplies - Dexter Mat Cutter. Have had & used one for decades.

Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States

TomHackett wrote:

Sorry, it was not 2" off. I said 30.05 when I meant 32.05. The discrepancy was 0.05", not 2.05". As I said in the OP, .05" or 3/64" does not matter that much. It's the .125" on the 40" side that bothers me.

By the way, I noticed that Hobby Lobby advertises 32"x40" foam cores that they even say are 32.125"x40.125".

That's 3mm off.
Never had a problem with mats mating with frames.
All the frames I've have usually turned out to be a scosh larger than the mat.
Guess I've been lucky.

frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.

Longshadow wrote:

That's 3mm off.
Never had a problem with mats mating with frames.
All the frames I've have usually turned out to be a scosh larger than the mat.
Guess I've been lucky.

Not lucky, that's normal. And I would think Matt's would be a scosh smaller, outside.

TomHackett Loc: Kingston, New York

bleirer wrote:

I think the OP didn't order a mat, but some mat bo... (show quote)

You make a good point. This is the first time I've used the entire 32"x40" for the finished mat. Given the cost factor, I'm not in a position to pay someone to cut a 32+"x40+" mat to exactly 32"x40". (And I generally don't want to do that myself.). So, I need to find mat board that is already 32"x40" +/- 1/16". In digging through my existing supply, I found one manufacturer's mat board that fits this specification. I will use them (Crescent) in the future. When I find myself needing foam core, I'll experiment to find a manufacturer who supplies to that spec. as well.

frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.

TomHackett wrote:

You make a good point. This is the first time I'v... (show quote)

Foam board us super easy to cut yourself. Straight edge and razor knife. Just going try to make the cut in one cut, go two or three, for a smooth cut.

Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States

frankraney wrote:

Not lucky, that's normal. And I would think Matt's would be a scosh smaller, outside.

(my point.)

lsupremo Loc: Palm Desert, CA

TomHackett wrote:

I am working toward an installation of about a doz... (show quote)

The reason is because, in most of the world they do everything in metric and their products in the US are stated as close as they can in inches.

TomHackett Loc: Kingston, New York

lsupremo wrote:

The reason is because, in most of the world they do everything in metric and their products in the US are stated as close as they can in inches.

Good point. The mat board in question came from the UK.

bleirer

TomHackett wrote:

You make a good point. This is the first time I'v... (show quote)

These guys have a quantity discount for 5+, with a matching backer board if desired. https://www.matboardplus.com/mat-boards/

rcarol

photoman022 wrote:

I don't know why a company selling mat board won't sell the size advertised BUT I do know why 2x4 lumber is called 2x4 (although it is smaller). The lumber is measured to the stated size while it is wet and is then dried (either air dried or kiln dried); when the lumber dries it shrinks. As you say, anyone who's ever worked with lumber knows that it is smaller than the nominal size.

Not quite. 2" X 4" lumber is that size after being rough sawn at the mill. After being kiln-dried, the rough-hewn lumber is planed on all four sides to make it smooth resulting in dimensions less than 2" X 4".

chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA

photoman022 wrote:

I don't know why a company selling mat board won't sell the size advertised BUT I do know why 2x4 lumber is called 2x4 (although it is smaller). The lumber is measured to the stated size while it is wet and is then dried (either air dried or kiln dried); when the lumber dries it shrinks. As you say, anyone who's ever worked with lumber knows that it is smaller than the nominal size.

...point of order: the lumber is cut at what's called "nominal" dimensions (i.e. 2x4 "nominally" is 1.5x3.5 inches) at the mill. Yes, it will shrink over time but not that much. I've framed with studs that were so wet water would splash on the last hit driving a nail in, and they were cut at 1.5x3.5 and would dry in place (that was a long time ago when I was learning during the tract boom here in SoCal). No way can you depend on shrinkage to determine finish lumber size. I've also demo'd and/or worked on structures with "real" 2x4's that are actually those dimensions...and younger structures where the wood is 1.75x3.75 inches, showing that the industry indeed changed with the times...and got more and more pieces out of a log!

photoman022 Loc: Manchester CT USA

To all those who took issue with my explanation of why 2x4s are not really 2x4: Your argument is really with Charles Woods, my 9th Grade wood shop teacher (yes, that was his real name) and his explanation why 1-by-lumber was really 3/4 inch thick. We used to call him "Wood Chuck" (when he wasn't around).

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

I have a custom framing service in my studio. We join mouldings, cut mattes, mount photographs and other artwork, stretch canvas on bars, and fit artwork in all kinds of frames. Precise measuring and having the right hardware and tools are of the utmost importance in avoiding waste, damage and frustration.

If you order mattes from a custom shop and measure them carefully, they should be able to precisely conform to your specifications. If for some reason they allow a small measure of extra material it is easy enough to trim it as per the tip below. Trimming can be problematic if you are leaving additional space at the bottom of a matte and you have to trim it off- so measure carefully and allow a margin for error. You can always trim a small sliver off but you can't add it on if it is too short.

If you use pre-manufactured stock frames in a specific size such as 11x14, 30x4, etc. there is usually an allowance for a small amount of additional space to avoid force-fitting and damage to the artwork and frame mitering. If you order custom frames, you should all for the additional margin as well- I usually allow 1/8" so everything drops into the channel easily and held in place by the appropriate brads (small nails), glazers points, or brackets.

I order Foam-Cor in 4' x 8' sheets in cases of 24 and cut to size as required- it's more economical than purchasing small sheets.

An important tip: When cutting Foam-Cor, Cor-Plast matte board pr other similar materials use a metal straight edge as a guide and a sharp matte knife with a fresh blade and a large angled grip handle. Do not attempt to cut through in one stroke but make several cuts with moderate pressure. You will achieve a clean precise cut with no ragged edges.

If you do a lot of framing, investing in a few "right tools for the job" will pay off. A good straight edge, the kind of knife I recommended and a gun that inserts brads, glazers points or special framing staples will save materials waste and make for an easy production.

You know the adage- somethg like "measure once cut twice- measure twice- cut once"!

chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA

photoman022 wrote:

To all those who took issue with my explanation of why 2x4s are not really 2x4: Your argument is really with Charles Woods, my 9th Grade wood shop teacher (yes, that was his real name) and his explanation why 1-by-lumber was really 3/4 inch thick. We used to call him "Wood Chuck" (when he wasn't around).

...uh, not "arguing" at all, brother, I'm a working (42 years) carpenter and I know my business. I think you, the student, misunderstood Mr. Woods...which is entirely possible for a 9th grader; and definitely possible after a few decades. ;0)