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How many pixels do we really need
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Jan 14, 2021 14:34:33   #
WDCash Loc: Milford, Delaware, USA
 
bleirer wrote:
But also with the smaller pixels you get somewhat worse diffraction and poorer low light performance and more noise, but could still be worth the trade off for the extra reach especially shooting in good light.


And This is the quandary. To have the best of both would be grand.

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Jan 14, 2021 15:12:08   #
flip1948 Loc: Hamden, CT
 
charlienow wrote:
Good luck with the second eye. It is a pain having the 2 different visions. I took the left lens out of my glasses so I could drive. It helped a little. Chuck

For the two weeks between my surgeries I became a pirate. I picked up an eye patch as soon as I was released to cover the still bad left eye. At night I would switch it to the repaired eye to avoid rubbing it.

I even gave one of my friends the job of my first mate, giving him 3 simple tasks...find me a ship, a crew and 3 busty wenches (blonde, brunette and redhead). He did none of that so he had to walk the plank.

The only problem with this was that I completely lost my depth perception seeing thru only one eye. I kept missing doorknobs by about a foot.

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Jan 14, 2021 16:30:53   #
WDCash Loc: Milford, Delaware, USA
 
flip1948 wrote:
For the two weeks between my surgeries I became a pirate. I picked up an eye patch as soon as I was released to cover the still bad left eye. At night I would switch it to the repaired eye to avoid rubbing it.

I even gave one of my friends the job of my first mate, giving him 3 simple tasks...find me a ship, a crew and 3 busty wenches (blonde, brunette and redhead). He did none of that so he had to walk the plank.

The only problem with this was that I completely lost my depth perception seeing thru only one eye. I kept missing doorknobs by about a foot.
For the two weeks between my surgeries I became a ... (show quote)


Hmm, seems all I'm missing is the patch.

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Jan 14, 2021 22:33:14   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
WDCash wrote:
My cataract surgery on one eye was yesterday, recovering today. The cost of the upgraded lenses, in my eyes, has put a hold on my new camera body purchase. ( Please excuse any strange keyboard or spelling messups. Working with altered vision today.)
This led me back into the rabbit hole of why I want a new body (cause I'm not 18 anymore?).

I shoot mostly wildlife and of that mostly birds.very often from a moving platform, a boat.

From what I have been reading high pixel cameras are more sensitive to camera movement. This got me wondering about the 90d I have been lusting after. At 32 megapixels its equal to a full frame at 51 megapixels. I'm also trying to avoid more high iso noise. For wildlife, for me, speed is king.

This got me looking over the older 1D offerings with H size sensors.

I crop often, ok almost always, and sometime big crops.
So I'm wondering about pixel density and print image size. But the normal thoughts of 300 dpi for high quality printing a 16.1. Mp image (canon 1D 1V H. Sensor) would print a max image of 4896 x 3264 or 16.3"x10.8" but. We also know that for larger printing 300 dpi may not be necessary. Cropped at 50% would be 8x5. Of for web but not so good to print?

So I guess the question is, at what point does "blowing up" an image does an image begin to soften due to pixelation?

Along the same line.
I had a thought the other day when PS wanted to Rastorize (sp?) an image because of something I tried to do. (Still learning)
When an image is rastorized isn't that like the digital equivelant of a "line type" image? Would restorizing help to preserve detail if an image is being enlarged?

Thanks
Bill
My cataract surgery on one eye was yesterday, reco... (show quote)


I think you will find that you can crop more with sharper lenses - pixelation is really only for extreme crops.

What defines extreme? Well when the image pixelates.

On a HD display (1920x1200) there is no pixelation in the crops below

D800 (36 mp), 600mmF4
D800 (36 mp), 600mmF4...
(Download)

crop from above
crop from above...
(Download)

D800, Sigma Sport 150-600
D800, Sigma Sport 150-600...
(Download)

crop from above
crop from above...
(Download)

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Jan 15, 2021 06:08:39   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
WDCash wrote:
My cataract surgery on one eye was yesterday, recovering today. The cost of the upgraded lenses, in my eyes, has put a hold on my new camera body purchase. ( Please excuse any strange keyboard or spelling messups. Working with altered vision today.)
This led me back into the rabbit hole of why I want a new body (cause I'm not 18 anymore?).

I shoot mostly wildlife and of that mostly birds.very often from a moving platform, a boat.

From what I have been reading high pixel cameras are more sensitive to camera movement. This got me wondering about the 90d I have been lusting after. At 32 megapixels its equal to a full frame at 51 megapixels. I'm also trying to avoid more high iso noise. For wildlife, for me, speed is king.

This got me looking over the older 1D offerings with H size sensors.

I crop often, ok almost always, and sometime big crops.
So I'm wondering about pixel density and print image size. But the normal thoughts of 300 dpi for high quality printing a 16.1. Mp image (canon 1D 1V H. Sensor) would print a max image of 4896 x 3264 or 16.3"x10.8" but. We also know that for larger printing 300 dpi may not be necessary. Cropped at 50% would be 8x5. Of for web but not so good to print?

So I guess the question is, at what point does "blowing up" an image does an image begin to soften due to pixelation?

Along the same line.
I had a thought the other day when PS wanted to Rastorize (sp?) an image because of something I tried to do. (Still learning)
When an image is rastorized isn't that like the digital equivelant of a "line type" image? Would restorizing help to preserve detail if an image is being enlarged?

Thanks
Bill
My cataract surgery on one eye was yesterday, reco... (show quote)


Bill, I have used and still use my Nikon D3s, a 12 meg. camera, I shoot wildlife and birds in flight. I can, with the D3s, with crop, go to a 20X30 image.
If your not getting what you want out of your camera, is it time to rethink your techniques?

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Jan 15, 2021 06:59:26   #
WDCash Loc: Milford, Delaware, USA
 
Gene51 wrote:
I think you will find that you can crop more with sharper lenses - pixelation is really only for extreme crops.

What defines extreme? Well when the image pixelates.

On a HD display (1920x1200) there is no pixelation in the crops below


Great example. Thanks

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Jan 15, 2021 07:15:40   #
WDCash Loc: Milford, Delaware, USA
 
billnikon wrote:
Bill, I have used and still use my Nikon D3s, a 12 meg. camera, I shoot wildlife and birds in flight. I can, with the D3s, with crop, go to a 20X30 image.
If your not getting what you want out of your camera, is it time to rethink your techniques?


Hi Bill
My desire to upgrade is based on a few things.
First off-focus. My camera has only 9 focus points and of them only 1 is cross type, the center. So I almost alwayse use center point which has its own problems.
My auto focus also is hit or miss. I catxh alot.of shots dead on with my focus and yet the camera does not. Topa ai is helping with that.
Second. Speed. Im maxed at 3 fps and buffered full at 8 images, I think. Missing too many waiting for the buffer to clear.

Third noise. My sensor/camera was made in 2011. Starts getting very noisey above iso 800. I can reduce noise, and do, by ettr but.

Forth, controls on this camera are minimal compared to todays bodies. For one thing I can not add exposure compensation if and when shooting in manual with auto iso.anual with auto iso would be a big help in changing conditions.like I incounter when out shooting from my favorate platform- the boat.

Fifth.
My cera body was toast baxk in Sept. I think due to moisture attacking the iso adjuatment button. I was able to revive it but for how long is queationable. A more robust body is desired.

Eventually I hope to snag a better lens, my sigma dg 120-400 does and adaquet job but by todays standards its lacking and another 200 mm would.be wonderful (hint 150-600 tamron or sigma)

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Jan 15, 2021 07:43:32   #
Canisdirus
 
One of the main reasons why high megapixel full frame cameras are desirable is for cropping purposes.
While it is true you can have a high pixel count on an crop camera...you also have to be framed perfectly.
If you have to crop down for any reason, you pay a price.
I have the A7RIV at 61MP and it also has a button for crop mode (26MP)...but I never use it.
Why not?
Because it locks in the framing. If I shoot in FF mode, when I am PP, I can crop many different ways and don't have to worry about pixel drop below 26.
Crop cameras are great...but confining when it comes to cropping.

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Jan 15, 2021 07:44:00   #
LEWHITE7747 Loc: 33773
 
Gene51 wrote:
I think you will find that you can crop more with sharper lenses - pixelation is really only for extreme crops.

What defines extreme? Well when the image pixelates.

On a HD display (1920x1200) there is no pixelation in the crops below


Beautiful captures. Just shows what expensive equipment can do. Still have to know how to use it.

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Jan 15, 2021 08:11:59   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
WDCash wrote:
Hi Bill
My desire to upgrade is based on a few things. ...

Most of that has nothing to do with the stated reason for this thread. You probably need to reexamine your approach to photography before you drop a bundle of cash.

Focus - Better focus can always help but it will only slightly improve your hit rate with BIF.

Speed - A newer camera will also be faster. Going from 3 fps to 6 or more will also improve your chances a little.

Noise - You need to learn about exposure. Shooting BIF does not call for high ISO. After all, it's probably daylight so anything from ISO 100 to 400 will be adequate.

Controls - Most cameras have the controls you need. But when you are in the processing of shooting you probably not going to be changing the settings.

Body broken - You don't need a reason to replace it. You just need to know what to replace it with.

A Tamron or Sigma 150-200 is a good choice but I suggest biting the bullet and getting a new one. My Tamron has a 6-year warranty. I use it on my Df in full manual mode (ISO, shutter speed and aperture @ f/8) on my Df which is 16 MP, more than enough.

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Jan 15, 2021 08:14:10   #
neillaubenthal
 
Just like RAM and hard drive capacity...God, Amazon, and the NSA have enough...the rest of us are making do.

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Jan 15, 2021 08:24:00   #
cactuspic Loc: Dallas, TX
 
I upgraded my wildlife photography by switching from a cropped from Canon 7D Mark II to a Canon R5. The amount of detail that I can capture in perfect lighting of a still subject from a stationary platform is similar with a slight edge to the 7d II. But I rarely shoot still subjects in that perfect light. The minute I have to lighten my shadows, crank up the ISO, rely on the dynamic range of the sensor to capture both highlights and shadows, or depend on image stabilization, the R5 delivers sharper, cleaner and better images. The dynamic range is superior, the signal to noise ratio is superior particularly above base ISO, the eye focusing is a league ahead, and the ibis stabilization allows for more keepers when hand holding.This is not to say that canon won't come out with a cropped frame sensor with similar capability but as of now, it is not even close, in my experience. (edited to add the following)

I have not shot with the 90D with has a better performance than the 7D II so I can't give you a direct comparison.

With regard to the eye focus, I respectfully disagree with Selmslie. The eye focus is a game changer when the animal is close enough for it to work.

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Jan 15, 2021 08:30:19   #
neillaubenthal
 
bleirer wrote:
I believe it is all about the number of pixels on the subject.


You’ve hit the nail on the head there. Landscapes and such this is pretty easy as mostly you can position yourself to compose the image you want and little crop is needed. For wildlife or BIF...getting closer is usually not an option so you need some combination of the longest lens you can afford in either cost or weight to Sherpa around and cropping to get a bear image instead of a bear in the field against the trees image...and that’s when more pixels are enough. CHG_CANON is correct in his note about 2000 or so pixels being enough for display on a monitor... it it’s what you do with those 2000 pixels...and a final image with the bear’s face being 100x100 pixels will always be better than one with a face of 25x25.

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Jan 15, 2021 08:59:10   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
cactuspic wrote:
...With regard to the eye focus, I respectfully disagree with Selmslie. The eye focus is a game changer when the animal is close enough for it to work.

That works if it's not moving.

If it's moving it is still hit or miss. Good luck finding an eye with BIF. You will still be discarding a lot of missed shots.

BIF is a lot like gambling. We only brag about our winners and we don't talk about our losses. The odds are in the house's favor.

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Jan 15, 2021 09:06:45   #
cactuspic Loc: Dallas, TX
 
selmslie wrote:
That works if it's not moving.

If it's moving it is still hit or miss. Good luck finding an eye with BIF. You will still be discarding a lot of missed shots.

BIF is a lot like gambling. We only brag about our winners and we don't talk about our losses. The odds are in the house's favor.


Have you used the R5 for any length of time?

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