Interesting Take on Electric Cars
Dec 3, 2020 10:21:18 #
Interested in what the engineers or others with knowledge and/or experience in this field have to say about this man's comments. I did not write this, it was sent by a friend. chase
As an engineer I love the electric vehicle technology. However, I
have been troubled for a longtime by the fact that the electrical
energy to keep the batteries charged has to come from the grid and that means more power generation and a huge increase in the
distribution infrastructure Whether generated from coal, gas, oil,
wind or sun, installed generation capacity is limited.
IF ELECTRIC CARS DO NOT USE GASOLINE, THEY WILL NOT PARTICIPATE IN PAYING A GASOLINE TAX ON EVERY GALLON THAT IS SOLD FOR AUTOMOBILES, WHICH WAS ENACTED SOME YEARS AGO TO HELP TO MAINTAIN OUR ROADS AND BRIDGES. THEY WILL USE THE ROADS, BUT WILL NOT PAY FOR THEIR MAINTENANCE!
In case you were thinking of buying hybrid or an electric car:
Ever since the advent of electric cars, the REAL cost per mile of
those things has never been discussed. All you ever heard was the mpg in terms of gasoline, with nary a mention of the cost of electricity to run it . This is the first article I've ever seen and tells the story pretty much as I expected it to
Electricity has to be one of the least efficient ways to power things
yet they're being shoved down our throats. Glad somebody finally put engineering and math to paper.
At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro
Executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious.
If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you
had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), The electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla, each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.
This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our
residential infrastructure cannot bear the load So as our genius
elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy these things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead end road that it will be presented with an 'OOPS..!' and a shrug.
If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are
eco-friendly, just read the following Note: If you ARE a green
person, read it anyway. It's enlightening.
Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors and he writes, "For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine. "Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles
It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging Time) would be 20 mph. According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned, so I looked up what I pay for electricity.
I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 Mpg = $0.10 per mile.
The gasoline powered car costs about $25,000 while the Volt costs
$46,000 plus. Simply pay twice as much for a car, that costs more than seven times as much to run, and takes three times longer to drive across the country.
As an engineer I love the electric vehicle technology. However, I
have been troubled for a longtime by the fact that the electrical
energy to keep the batteries charged has to come from the grid and that means more power generation and a huge increase in the
distribution infrastructure Whether generated from coal, gas, oil,
wind or sun, installed generation capacity is limited.
IF ELECTRIC CARS DO NOT USE GASOLINE, THEY WILL NOT PARTICIPATE IN PAYING A GASOLINE TAX ON EVERY GALLON THAT IS SOLD FOR AUTOMOBILES, WHICH WAS ENACTED SOME YEARS AGO TO HELP TO MAINTAIN OUR ROADS AND BRIDGES. THEY WILL USE THE ROADS, BUT WILL NOT PAY FOR THEIR MAINTENANCE!
In case you were thinking of buying hybrid or an electric car:
Ever since the advent of electric cars, the REAL cost per mile of
those things has never been discussed. All you ever heard was the mpg in terms of gasoline, with nary a mention of the cost of electricity to run it . This is the first article I've ever seen and tells the story pretty much as I expected it to
Electricity has to be one of the least efficient ways to power things
yet they're being shoved down our throats. Glad somebody finally put engineering and math to paper.
At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro
Executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious.
If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you
had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), The electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla, each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.
This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our
residential infrastructure cannot bear the load So as our genius
elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy these things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead end road that it will be presented with an 'OOPS..!' and a shrug.
If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are
eco-friendly, just read the following Note: If you ARE a green
person, read it anyway. It's enlightening.
Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors and he writes, "For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine. "Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles
It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging Time) would be 20 mph. According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned, so I looked up what I pay for electricity.
I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 Mpg = $0.10 per mile.
The gasoline powered car costs about $25,000 while the Volt costs
$46,000 plus. Simply pay twice as much for a car, that costs more than seven times as much to run, and takes three times longer to drive across the country.
Dec 3, 2020 10:33:38 #
stogieboy
Loc: Marlboro, NY
Well, based on this information, I guess we should abandon all attempts at engineering an alternative fuel for humans to maintain our lifestyles.
Are electric cars the answer to everything? Of course not! If we continue to burn fossil fuels, we will continue pollution, and eventually, will run out of those fuels. Probably not soon, but it will happen.
As new technology emerges, of course it comes with some setbacks (for lack of a better word), but does that mean we should stop trying to improve upon existing technology? I would certainly love to cut down on emissions as much as possible. I realize that I produce a whole lot of pollution myself (I drive a gas-powered vehicle), but I try to do as little driving as possible when I can.
I don't think that because the current electrical grid couldn't handle the added electrical vehicle charging requirements means that electric cars are bad and I shouldn't get one.
I assume your post was to jump-start a conversation. :-)
Are electric cars the answer to everything? Of course not! If we continue to burn fossil fuels, we will continue pollution, and eventually, will run out of those fuels. Probably not soon, but it will happen.
As new technology emerges, of course it comes with some setbacks (for lack of a better word), but does that mean we should stop trying to improve upon existing technology? I would certainly love to cut down on emissions as much as possible. I realize that I produce a whole lot of pollution myself (I drive a gas-powered vehicle), but I try to do as little driving as possible when I can.
I don't think that because the current electrical grid couldn't handle the added electrical vehicle charging requirements means that electric cars are bad and I shouldn't get one.
I assume your post was to jump-start a conversation. :-)
Dec 3, 2020 10:41:49 #
We live in Indiana and pay an extra $50.00 per year for our license plates because our car is a hybrid.
Dec 3, 2020 10:43:30 #
To shift transportation from carbon fuel to electricity comes with problems as the OP has outlined. Now the issue is what to do about those problems.
Dec 3, 2020 10:50:07 #
jaymatt wrote:
We live in Indiana and pay an extra $50.00 per year for our license plates because our car is a hybrid.
Perhaps $50/year is less than you might be paying in gas/road tax? I don't know about your state taxes. chase
Dec 3, 2020 10:50:33 #
13
Loc: I am only responsible to what I say..not what
Electrical cars won't work where it's cold...below freezing. Not that I'm aware of.
Dec 3, 2020 10:57:35 #
John_F wrote:
To shift transportation from carbon fuel to electricity comes with problems as the OP has outlined. Now the issue is what to do about those problems.
Yep, I think there are a couple of examples of this by the impacts on the down river ecology by hydro-electric dams and the nuclear power plants on the environment (disposal of spent fuel rods, Fukushima, others). chase
Dec 3, 2020 11:09:12 #
Amen !!! Electric cars will create more problems than they are worth. We are all being sold a big bill of goods here. Rid ourselves of fossil power plants -- the only reliable power we have or ever will have. Wind and solar are intermittent power sources.
Solar by design can only provide power less than 50% of the time (then add cloudy days and dust collection on mirrors) and that is likely less than 35% available.
Wind power is bit better in some areas. There are locations where the wind does blow 24/7 like mountain ridges and off shore locations. During my lifetime I have lived in 14 of our states, and almost without exception when the sun went down the wind went down also until the sun came back up the next morning.
I grew up on a farm in windy Nebraska where we relied on a windmill for our personal water supply and for the extensive livestock we raised. I can assure you there were plenty of days that the windmill did not turn and we were using a hand pump on a large backup cistern to fill the livestock tank.
So everyone will want to re-charge their electric cars at night while they sleep when the only choice is likely to be fossil plants that are on the hit list. Even Elon Musk says our current electrical generating capacity will have to double to support electric car charging. You cannot send mountain ridge power huge distances to the heartland of America without IR losses consuming most of it. I think we will be painting ourselves into a corner with this one.
Solar by design can only provide power less than 50% of the time (then add cloudy days and dust collection on mirrors) and that is likely less than 35% available.
Wind power is bit better in some areas. There are locations where the wind does blow 24/7 like mountain ridges and off shore locations. During my lifetime I have lived in 14 of our states, and almost without exception when the sun went down the wind went down also until the sun came back up the next morning.
I grew up on a farm in windy Nebraska where we relied on a windmill for our personal water supply and for the extensive livestock we raised. I can assure you there were plenty of days that the windmill did not turn and we were using a hand pump on a large backup cistern to fill the livestock tank.
So everyone will want to re-charge their electric cars at night while they sleep when the only choice is likely to be fossil plants that are on the hit list. Even Elon Musk says our current electrical generating capacity will have to double to support electric car charging. You cannot send mountain ridge power huge distances to the heartland of America without IR losses consuming most of it. I think we will be painting ourselves into a corner with this one.
Dec 3, 2020 11:26:28 #
I saw an article recently (can't recall where on the internet) that claimed electric cars were around some time before he gas and diesel powered ones. But there were problems with the distance and recharging of the batteries, the early batteries were not rechargeable, and similar problems to today's. The past to or three decades have proven that with determination and continued research, the gasoline powered engine can be made more efficient and less polluting, but probably never non-harmful to the environment. As for electric automobiles, the change in the infrastructure and increased demand for electricity plus the time constraints for recharging and the limited range of travel and possibly many other problems which likely will arise, it will probably be many years in the future before we figure it all out. Who know, maybe there will be advances in nuclear powered vehicles that will have unlimited mileage capabilities and never need refueling. Maybe fuel cells could be recycled by moving from one old model into a newer one.
Dec 3, 2020 11:42:58 #
What about battery disposal, solar panel manufacturing and disposal, windmill maintenance and disposal? I think we should keep trying but we have a long way to go. The current "solution" is not viable.
Dec 3, 2020 11:46:13 #
stogieboy wrote:
Well, based on this information, I guess we should abandon all attempts at engineering an alternative fuel for humans to maintain our lifestyles.
I assume your post was to jump-start a conversation. :-)
I assume your post was to jump-start a conversation. :-)
Yep, just wanted to see what others think about electric vehicles and the future. chase
Dec 3, 2020 11:57:51 #
LWW
Loc: Banana Republic of America
stogieboy wrote:
Are electric cars the answer to everything? Of course not! If we continue to burn fossil fuels, we will continue pollution, and eventually, will run out of those fuels.
Yet somehow auto emissions are a fraction of what they were in 1960 and proven oil reserves are at an all time high.
Dec 3, 2020 12:22:07 #
There was an interesting and hilarious skit on Saturday Night Live. Featuring Julia Louis Dreyfus, she is the supposed spokeswoman for the new car, Mercedes AA Class. It uses over 9 thousand batteries to power the car to 52 mph. It becomes interesting when you need to replace those batteries. I tried to place a link but had difficulty. You could Google for a video of the skit.
Dec 3, 2020 12:38:29 #
Solar and wind power technology are not viable at this time in history. The technology is not cost effective and brings many problems to the table. Fossil fuels are in abundance and not running out for many, many decades, if at all in our lifetime. Alternative fuel sources should be investigated, but not to replace proven fuels until they are proven reliable. This topic should not be driven by political ideology, but science.
Dec 3, 2020 12:44:15 #
This topic should not be driven by political ideology, but science.[/quote]
Yep, that's my hope that we only discuss the science aspects here and NOT politics. chase
Yep, that's my hope that we only discuss the science aspects here and NOT politics. chase
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