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Sky Replacement? Really?
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Oct 22, 2020 00:11:45   #
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Bill_de wrote:
You do what you want to do and others will do what they want to do. Personally I have never replaced a sky. My only objection to a replaced sky (or any post processing) is when it is so obvious it detracts from the image.

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On a “whatever gets you your intended result” approach, I’m agreeing with you.

My personal opinion of sky replacement, however finely executed, is that it’s all about “prettying up” the image, which I find abhorrent ... but I admit that many viewers, from artless hackers through to commercial clients, actually prefer Pretty Pictures. So, it’s back again to “whatever works”, meaning that in making images the ends justify the means.

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Oct 22, 2020 04:37:37   #
rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
 
You're looking at it from a limited, hobbyist perspective. Much of commercial photography, particularly in advertising, is not concerned about capturing reality. Colors are drastically altered, objects removed, added or reshaped... and even skies and backgrounds completely replaced. Whatever the photographer or art department feels will allow the image to more effectively serve its purpose. Oftentimes it's so skillfully done, you hardly notice just how much the image has been manipulated. Why should an image editor NOT offer features which facilitate extreme edits such as sky replacement?

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Oct 22, 2020 05:36:59   #
cmc4214 Loc: S.W. Pennsylvania
 
The thing I don't like about sky replacement and similar edits is that what used to take a lot of time, effort, skill and dedication can now be done in seconds by almost anyone, for me it is much less rewarding, but I know it is here to stay, so I guess I'll have to get used to it.

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Oct 22, 2020 05:43:15   #
kymarto Loc: Portland OR and Milan Italy
 
lorvey wrote:
Luminar and PS 21 can now do sky replacement. Don't get me wrong, I sometimes massage my photos a lot by cropping, using spot repair, cloning out small unwanted bits, adjust exposure, and sometimes add a little saturation. But sky replacement to me seems like too much. Do you still call it a photo after you replace the sky? Do you enter it in a contest without saying anything. Do you accept compliments without saying anything? Not trying to be a purist, but when you start adding and replacing items in a photo, it seems to me it is no longer a photo. It's probably photo art. Not trying to start a fight, just interested in your perspective.
Luminar and PS 21 can now do sky replacement. Don... (show quote)


I'm in accord with you about sky replacement, unless it is clearly a work of fantasy. It feels like a step too far if it is done to look natural, just to jazz up an otherwise dull image. If one is clearly composting an image then it seems honest, in the sense that the photographer is saying, "I'm not pretending this is a found scene; I'm creating something from imagination."

That is usually not the case with a sky replacement, which does not take the image into the realm of an artwork. Of course it is more nuanced than that, but I personally have never replaced a sky and never will, unless it is part of a deliberate construction.

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Oct 22, 2020 05:57:20   #
John N Loc: HP14 3QF Stokenchurch, UK
 
Depends what you use it for and how far you go. If I take a picture of and old English Cottage I'll spend ages cloning out modern pharaphenalia such as TV aerials and overhaed cabling etc. I try to get these things to look like they were when built, but retain the original image in all other respects.

I send an e-mail xmas card to old colleagues still at work and sent one of the telecommunications tower not far away, but not until a club colleague had replaced the sky with a Luminar 4 Milky Way. I had no qualms about using it for that purpose.

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Oct 22, 2020 06:10:22   #
sodapop Loc: Bel Air, MD
 
Gene51 wrote:
Only art critics attempt to impose rules on art . . .


Agree, they claim moral integrity. So if you replace a sky you are immoral?

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Oct 22, 2020 06:40:00   #
Jeffcs Loc: Myrtle Beach South Carolina
 
I can tell you from me when I converted from film to digital I wanted to keep my craft pure and only do in PS what I could do in the dark room. Well today if you can improve your works, than why not. That said I’m a member of a New Jersey camera club and any image entered into competition MUST be all yours. So if your replacing the sky as long as it is yours than have at it.

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Oct 22, 2020 07:06:16   #
ChazT Loc: Florida
 
Longshadow wrote:
Follow the contest rules. What if there is no contest?
A print for the wall, I see no problem.

Should filter use be declared? Telephoto vs. wide angle? Camera model? Flipped left-right?
I look at images on their own merit, not how or with what they were created.



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Oct 22, 2020 07:30:13   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
lorvey wrote:
Luminar and PS 21 can now do sky replacement. Don't get me wrong, I sometimes massage my photos a lot by cropping, using spot repair, cloning out small unwanted bits, adjust exposure, and sometimes add a little saturation. But sky replacement to me seems like too much. Do you still call it a photo after you replace the sky? Do you enter it in a contest without saying anything. Do you accept compliments without saying anything? Not trying to be a purist, but when you start adding and replacing items in a photo, it seems to me it is no longer a photo. It's probably photo art. Not trying to start a fight, just interested in your perspective.
Luminar and PS 21 can now do sky replacement. Don... (show quote)


Artists have been doing the same thing for thousands of years. It is call art.

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Oct 22, 2020 07:33:05   #
pithydoug Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
 
lorvey wrote:
Luminar and PS 21 can now do sky replacement. Don't get me wrong, I sometimes massage my photos a lot by cropping, using spot repair, cloning out small unwanted bits, adjust exposure, and sometimes add a little saturation. But sky replacement to me seems like too much. Do you still call it a photo after you replace the sky? Do you enter it in a contest without saying anything. Do you accept compliments without saying anything? Not trying to be a purist, but when you start adding and replacing items in a photo, it seems to me it is no longer a photo. It's probably photo art. Not trying to start a fight, just interested in your perspective.
Luminar and PS 21 can now do sky replacement. Don... (show quote)


You are equally guilty but you only do it a little. A little like, but officer, I only drove the get away car!

I think this has been beat to death. As for "confessing," that is entirely up to the person. Of course there are times where this is not allowed and should be obeyed but damn hard to prove.

Frankly a photo is a photo and I judge it as it is, and looking or asking if or how it came to be is tacky.

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Oct 22, 2020 07:36:41   #
jaymatt Loc: Alexandria, Indiana
 
Ourspolair wrote:
Didn't we just go through 22 pages of post on a horribly similar subject?



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Oct 22, 2020 07:48:07   #
yssirk123 Loc: New Jersey
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Sky replacement is perfectly COOL for me. I do it when a "blah" sky spoils an otherwise perfectly good scene. I only have one caveat- the enhanced skyscape has to match the actual lighting on the scene as to direction, colour, and quality (hardness of softness) of the existing lighting on the subject. Of course, the special effect has to be well crafted.

A scene or subject will look "artificial" if there is a disunity of lighting where the light seems to be striking the subject from one direction with a specific charismatics BUT the sky is telling the viewer something else.

If you are shooting on a gray day and you insert a blue sky with puffy white clouds and there are no discernable shadows on the ground that usually appear on a bright sunny day, there is an incompatibility. Perhaps a slight tint to a few wispy clouds would be a better choice of sky replacement.

This is a technical point, however, the final decision is up to the "artist". Unless you are shooting for meteorological purposes, there's no ethic attached- you can have the moon appear at high noon if that's the story you want t to tell. The only time it would be a breach of contest rules is if the is a prohibition of manipulation or special effects of any kind stated as a prerequisite for entry.

If someone offers you a compliment on one of you manipulated images- say "thank you"- if you care to elaborate on your method, that's up to you.

So many photographers superimpose what I call "false ethics" on their own work. You are not counterfeiting anythg or operating under false pretenses. As an artist, you have the right to photograph things as they are, as the ain't, as you wish they were, and how YOU prefer to interpret whatever or whoever it is. This applies UNLESS you are a photojournalist or charged with a completely documentary assignment.

I do lots of portrait work and I always tell my clenits that I will photograh themas they are, as the would like to present themselves, at their best, and as they would like to be remembered.
Sky replacement is perfectly COOL for me. I do it... (show quote)



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Oct 22, 2020 07:54:16   #
russelray Loc: La Mesa CA
 
It depends on one's purpose. I'm into railroads, and we have a historic Santa Fe depot here in San Diego. However, the depot is surrounded by skyscrapers. There is no way to get a picture of the depot without skyscrapers messing things up, so I did a sky replacement many years ago so I could show just the depot and its beautiful architecture. Here is the original photo and my sky replacement photo. It took me several days to do that sky replacement so I'm really looking forward to the new sky replacement tool in Photoshop.





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Oct 22, 2020 08:02:11   #
joehel2 Loc: Cherry Hill, NJ
 
Michaelangelo is painting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, at the end of the day, he calls his apprentice Fabrizio over and tells him, I need to have this finished by tomorrow when the Pope comes to inspect it, I want you to add around the perimeter some big fluffy clouds and blue sky. Michaelangelo’s creative vision is being presented. Does Fabizio Fotoshpia’s assistance make his work a misrepresentation?

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Oct 22, 2020 08:06:44   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
aellman wrote:
The most innocuous subjects can often set off a week of ping-pong.


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