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Feb 14, 2020 15:11:33   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
flyboy61 wrote:
In the 707 days of air travel, it was said in some of the photozines of the era that high-frequency vibrations unique to jet aircraft could loosen screws, and do other mysterious things to camera equipment. It didn't seem to be a problem with reciprocating engines. Truth, or Urban Legend?
Is it a problem today?
Just in case, I wrap my equipment in as much vibration dampening stuff...socks, sweatshirts, etc. as I can.
In the 707 days of air travel, it was said in some... (show quote)


Urban legend.
Planes would be coming apart all the time.
Likely a rumor from the airlines still using piston planes.

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Feb 14, 2020 15:37:01   #
Gerald Watson
 
The answer is no

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Feb 14, 2020 16:38:47   #
sabfish
 
This was a common warning back in the day. I always carried a set of jewelers screwdrivers, just in case. In fact, I did have some screws loosen on my cameras. Whether it was due to the plane vibrations or not, I don't know.
I travel fairly extensively in my old age and have not found a loose screw on a camera in many years. Perhaps, the manufacturers torque the screws tighter now, or maybe they use a different types of screws. Or maybe, it is simply coincidence.

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Feb 14, 2020 16:39:54   #
sabfish
 
This was a common warning back in the day. I always carried a set of jewelers screwdrivers, just in case. In fact, I did have some screws loosen on my cameras. Whether it was due to the plane vibrations or not, I don't know.
I travel fairly extensively in my old age and have not found a loose screw on a camera in many years. Perhaps, the manufacturers torque the screws tighter now, or maybe they use a different types of screws. Or maybe, it is simply coincidence.

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Feb 14, 2020 16:40:35   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
TerryLA wrote:
Like others I haven't heard of it happening but anything is possible! If you are doing lots of travel each year I feel that the Pelican cases are the best to use with great support for equipment inside them.


The foam interior of a Pelican case will kill almost all vibration. That is what we ship most of our spacecraft boxes in. And they almost always fly by plane. We don't like risking our multi-million boxes. A Pelican case was once tested by a photo magazine by putting a wine glass between two bricks with only a couple of inches of interior foam separating them. Then they tossed the case in a stream with several waterfalls to go over. When they fished the case out at the bottom of the falls, the interior was dry and the wine glass intact.

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Feb 14, 2020 18:36:43   #
aellman Loc: Boston MA
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
I'm still worried about waking up in a bath tub of ice and having my kidneys removed ....


...and the black helicopters are coming for us. LOL.

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Feb 14, 2020 18:40:01   #
aellman Loc: Boston MA
 
sabfish wrote:
This was a common warning back in the day. I always carried a set of jewelers screwdrivers, just in case. In fact, I did have some screws loosen on my cameras. Whether it was due to the plane vibrations or not, I don't know.
I travel fairly extensively in my old age and have not found a loose screw on a camera in many years. Perhaps, the manufacturers torque the screws tighter now, or maybe they use a different types of screws. Or maybe, it is simply coincidence.


I am going to resist the overwhelming temptation to make a remark about the O.P and loose screws. I will, however, maintain decorum and simply state that this warning was bogus.

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Feb 14, 2020 18:49:00   #
DeanS Loc: Capital City area of North Carolina
 
Jdt air travel has been the norm since what, the late 50s. Surely by now, if that was in fact the case, you would surely have heard about.

An earlier poster pointed out that if vibs “screwed” with your camera, wouldn’t it also affect the het itself?

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Feb 14, 2020 19:46:02   #
boomer826 Loc: Florida gulf coast
 
JohnSwanda wrote:
I was reading photo magazines in those days, and I never heard anything about that, but it seems pretty far-fetched. What would keep these mysterious vibrations from loosening screws on the aircraft itself?


That is why they use rivots, lol.

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Feb 14, 2020 20:11:36   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
aellman wrote:
I am going to resist the overwhelming temptation to make a remark about the O.P and loose screws. I will, however, maintain decorum and simply state that this warning was bogus.


I am sorry to say it was not totally bogus. I know what can happen with vibrations since we test on shaker tables almost everyday. I have seen things come apart that shouldn't. Luckily it does not happen often. That is mostly because of design. MrBossHK is correct in saying that our planes are put together by fasteners with locking features. I have had to inspect many safety wires on our launch vehicles to make sure that they will not loosen within the 2 minutes and 38 seconds needed. We do not like to see 2 billion dollar failures. Back in the days of 707s, engineers only worried about the high frequency vibrations from the engines affecting the aircraft, not how it affected passengers or anything being carried by the aircraft. Now days it is different. The engines tend to generate less intense high frequency vibrations and the aircraft structure is designed to help mitigate vibration. Almost all passengers complained about minor to bad headaches while flying in the 707 days. Now days there are only a few that complain about such. A lot of those headaches were and are from high frequency vibration. And if we are affected, why won't our camera equipment be affected? And that is because both camera engineering and camera bag engineering has helped to further mitigate high frequency vibrations. That is what has changed between the 707 days, when it was quite possible to shake screws loose, and the present days where it is not nearly as likely to have a screw loose.

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Feb 14, 2020 20:24:20   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
boomer826 wrote:
That is why they use rivots, lol.


Not everywhere. Our mechanics that came from the aircraft industry still talk about being tested. They had to reach into a small box, with their tools, and do a proper safety wire by feel. Trust me when I say it can be hard enough in a tight space to safety wire over a hundred bolt heads or nuts when one can actually see them.

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Feb 14, 2020 20:32:51   #
aellman Loc: Boston MA
 
wdross wrote:
I am sorry to say it was not totally bogus. I know what can happen with vibrations since we test on shaker tables almost everyday. I have seen things come apart that shouldn't. Luckily it does not happen often. That is mostly by design. MrBossHK is correct in saying that our planes are put together by fasteners with locking features. I have had to inspect many safety wires on our launch vehicles to make sure that they will not loosen within the 2 minutes and 38 seconds needed. We do not like to see 2 billion dollar failures. Back in the days of 707s, engineers only worried about the high frequency vibrations from the engines affecting the aircraft, not how it affected passengers or anything being carried by the aircraft. Now days it is different. The engines tend to generate less intense high frequency vibrations and the aircraft structure is designed to help mitigate vibration. Almost all passengers complained about minor to bad headaches while flying in the 707 days. Now days there are only a few that complain about such. A lot of those headaches were and are from high frequency vibration. And if we are affected, why won't our camera equipment be affected? And that is because both camera engineering and camera bag engineering has helped to further mitigate high frequency vibrations. That is what has changed between the 707 days, when it was quite possible to shake screws loose, and the present days where it is not nearly as likely to have a screw loose.
I am sorry to say it was not totally bogus. I know... (show quote)


It's not as if someone's camera is going to be bolted to a part of the body of an aircraft. In fact, the vibration insulation provided by as little a thing as a passenger's lap would obviate any effect of the type at issue. Comparing the environment of a commercial aircraft cabin to a shaking table is obviously ridiculous. The question of what (or who) has a screw loose remains open to debate. >Alan

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Feb 14, 2020 22:35:21   #
LFingar Loc: Claverack, NY
 
wdross wrote:
Almost all passengers complained about minor to bad headaches while flying in the 707 days.


The cause of those headaches was lack of ventilation. Fresh air on an airliner costs money because it has to be heated by bleed-air from the engines and that burns more fuel. Airlines have been criticized numerous times in the past for low cabin air exchange rates causing all types of passenger discomfort. Improved efficiency of modern airliners has reduced but not entirely eliminated the problem. One selling point of Boeing's 787 is that it can maintain a lower, more comfortable cabin altitude and higher exchange rates then competing airliners. Thanks to Uncle Sam's Travel Agency I spent more time then I care to remember in the seats of 707s and DC-8s in the '60's. The only thing that hurt was my butt.

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Feb 14, 2020 22:52:57   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
aellman wrote:
It's not as if someone's camera is going to be bolted to a part of the body of an aircraft. In fact, the vibration insulation provided by as little a thing as a passenger's lap would obviate any effect of the type at issue. Comparing the environment of a commercial aircraft cabin to a shaking table is obviously ridiculous. The question of what (or who) has a screw loose remains open to debate. >Alan


Vibration dynamics have not changed since the days of the 707. It is just math. But the designs and materials used have changed enormously in aircraft, cameras, and camera bags. Just looking at bags alone; how many bags are made of leather and canvas today? Almost none if not none. That wasn't so back in the 707 days. I agree that with todays designs, this is not really a problem like it was in the 707 days. I personally have no fear of screws coming loose on my camera much less a jet aircraft. But I also know that was not true at one time for cameras. Also, the one comment by one of our UHH members is true too. His comment how his Nikon never had a problem back in those days would be true too. Nikon was an extremely well built camera back in those days. It was even better than how Canons were built back then. And then everyone that wanted to sell a camera realized they had to build their cameras better, like the Nikons and Canons, if they were ever going to compete at all. Both Nikons and Canons were trout by the likes of Marty Forscher as to how well built they were. He didn't say that about every camera back then. So times have changed and for photographers things have become quite good. Vibrations from the aircraft's engines are not what they use to be in the cabin and their affects on today's cameras has become almost a non issue.

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Feb 14, 2020 23:24:07   #
tjw47 Loc: Michigan
 
When you fly, do you feel vibrations ??
if not neither does the camera.

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