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'Let Them (Lefty Liberals) Come To Venezuela' And See Socialism For Themselves
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Feb 9, 2020 10:19:36   #
DEBJENROB Loc: DELRAY BEACH FL
 
LWW wrote:
Denmark and Norway are not socialist.

Meanwhile:

Cuba ... firing squads for dissenters.

China ... a bulket in the head with the bill sent to the family.

USSR ... gulags and mass starvation.

Cambodia ... k*****g fields.

Laos ... reeducation camps.

Were/are.

This weekends assignment, read a book.

Class dismissed.


They have elements of socialism ..... most democratic governments have elements of capitalism and socialism ...... you should get a better understanding of the isims ...... all of them are economic theory ..... not social or political ... how they are applied is a different matter

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Feb 9, 2020 11:56:31   #
Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM
 
DEBJENROB wrote:
Maybe you should visit some other socialist countries ..... try Denmark or Norway .....also visit the United States and learn about such programs as Social Security , Medicare, Farm Aid etc.


Maybe you should not just visit but actually understand Norway and Denmark. As an example, Norway is very successful financially but that success is entirely dependent on carbon based fuels.

Another Example? This from the Daily Signal...
“ Norway, Denmark, and Sweden are not democratic socialist countries that the U.S. can be accurately compared with, and could be better described as “ compassionate capitalists .” As such, the “democratic socialists”—as they define socialism—are left with no successful examples of their vision, only disastrous ones.”

“ First, these countries are not technically socialist. By the YDSA’s definition, socialism entails a centrally planned economy with nationalized means of production. Although these countries have high income taxes and provide generous social programs, they remain prosperous because of their free-market economies.

Denmark ranks as the 10th most economically free country in The Heritage Foundation’s Index of Economic Freedom, which cites free-market policies and regulatory efficiency as reasons for the high standard of living. Sweden is ranked 15th and Norway 23rd, both with similar descriptions of thriving private sectors and open markets.

These three countries are clearly not operating under centrally planned economies, or their economic freedom scores would be significantly lower.

Second, the success of these countries is clearly based on a capitalist foundation, and it predates the expansion of social programs. Sweden, for example, became a wealthy country in the mid-20th century under a capitalist system with low tax rates.

Social programs and high tax rates were not implemented until the 1970s, which caused the economy to significantly underperform and unemployment to rise.

In recent years, Sweden has been privatizing socialized sectors, such as education and health care, cutting tax rates, and making welfare less generous. Even though tax rates and government spending remains comparatively high, open-market policies generate the revenue to support the spending.

Finally, these countries are largely homogeneous and have a culture that is conducive to a large welfare state. Scandinavians are described as hardworking citizens with extremely high levels of social trust and cohesion.”

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Feb 9, 2020 11:58:43   #
Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM
 
thom w wrote:
Of course you could always go to Russia, to experience Putin's democracy.


Smug Thom being smug, as usual!

Say, thommy, I don’t recall anyone here suggestions Putin has a democracy.

In fact, thommy, it’s only you f*****t progressives who seem to have an infatuation, maybe even a boy crush, on Putin, so please..... QUIT PROJECTING!

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Feb 9, 2020 12:00:39   #
Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM
 
DEBJENROB wrote:
They have elements of socialism ..... most democratic governments have elements of capitalism and socialism ...... you should get a better understanding of the isims ...... all of them are economic theory ..... not social or political ... how they are applied is a different matter



Sorry, but don’t try and bail on your dumb comment now.

You didn’t say “ELEMENTS of socialism”..... you said “ ???some other SOCIALIST countries..”

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Feb 9, 2020 12:32:22   #
EyeSawYou
 
DEBJENROB wrote:
SO TELL ME ..... IT IS NEWS TO YOU ..... WE HAVE ELEMENTS OF SOCIALISM IN OUR SOCIETY ....


Its elements of welfare Capitalism, It would be partial elements of socialism if it was occurring in a socialist economy which the U.S. is not.

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Feb 9, 2020 12:35:40   #
EyeSawYou
 
DEBJENROB wrote:
SO TELL ME ..... IT IS NEWS TO YOU ..... WE HAVE ELEMENTS OF SOCIALISM IN OUR SOCIETY ....


You made the claim that Denmark was a socialist State, you are wrong and the
Danish PM proved you wrong.

You are very bright, at all.

'Danish PM in US: Denmark is not socialist'

https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-denmark-is-not-socialist

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Feb 9, 2020 12:43:11   #
LWW Loc: Banana Republic of America
 
DEBJENROB wrote:
They have elements of socialism ..... most democratic governments have elements of capitalism and socialism ...... you should get a better understanding of the isims ...... all of them are economic theory ..... not social or political ... how they are applied is a different matter


Still clinging to Marx and Engels I see.

Anyone who believes your rant is either misinformed, malinformed or outright dishonest.

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Feb 9, 2020 14:07:08   #
BobHartung Loc: Bettendorf, IA
 
DEBJENROB wrote:
Maybe you should visit some other socialist countries ..... try Denmark or Norway .....also visit the United States and learn about such programs as Social Security , Medicare, Farm Aid etc.


I paid taxes to Social Security and Medicare over 52 years in the workforce. I do not consider my monthly checks as a government giveaway. I will never recover the amount money I paid in.

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Feb 9, 2020 20:33:51   #
Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM
 
EyeSawYou wrote:
"There are some who say that c*******m is the wave of the future. Let them come to Berlin!"

That was June 1963 in West Berlin where President John F. Kennedy gave one of his most memorable addresses. The speech was a stirring defense of liberty and a pointed critique of c*******m.

Whether you agree with Kennedy broadly or narrowly, I've rediscovered that speech and find it to relate now more than ever to the unfolding drama in the country of my birth, Venezuela. My family and I left Venezuela when I was 10. We had every intention of returning. Then Hugo Chavez took power, promising to usher in shared prosperity for all with his "21st century socialism." We never went back.

Kennedy's words should be a wake-up call to my fellow Americans, and especially to his fellow Democrats, as I see more millennials rejecting capitalism and embracing socialism as "the wave of the future." So, when Teen Vogue tweeted recently, "Can't #endpoverty without ending capitalism!" my initial reaction was, "Let them come to Venezuela."

Venezuela was once the most prosperous country in Latin America, but today almost 90% of its population lives in poverty. Venezuela's economy is in shambles. Recently, Venezuela's own government released a report showing that its annual inflation rate accelerated to a whopping 833,000% in October alone.

Socialism: Despair And Misery
In practical terms, Venezuela's misery means that it is not uncommon to see children rummaging through the garbage for food. And as basic medical supplies and medicine run dangerously low, newborns and the elderly die unattended in Venezuelan hospitals.

These heartbreaking scenes are difficult for anyone to bear, but for me, it's personal. I know many Venezuelans who held out hope that this "21st Century" form of socialism would turn out better than the 20th century version, but their dreams were quickly dashed.

Chavez may have died in 2013, but his ideas live on through his hand-picked successor, Nicolas Maduro. Today, Maduro rules Venezuela with an iron grip, fighting the growing opposition as more and more Venezuelans are realizing that Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher was right when she said the trouble with socialist governments is that they eventually "run out of other people's money."

Scores of people who dared to speak up against the government have been k**led or imprisoned. Political dissidents have been subjected to brutality, torture, and constant persecution.

Romanticizing Socialism
Even with all this happening in our own hemisphere, some Americans still cling to a romanticized view of socialism. According to Gallup, Democrats have a more positive image of socialism than capitalism. And in a poll taken last year, a majority of millennials said that they would rather live under socialist than capitalism.

Let them come to Venezuela.

It has been especially painful for me to see a number of candidates openly running as Democratic socialists. The prime example is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, who was recently elected to represent New York's 14th District in Congress.

And in my home state of Florida, Tallahassee Mayor Andrew Gillum came a few thousand v**es shy of claiming the governor's mansion. Mayor Gillum was endorsed by the godfather of democratic socialism, Sen. Bernie Sanders, who has praised Fidel Castro and c*******t Cuba.

Bernie's 'American Dream'
In a 2006 column, Sen. Sanders wrote: "These days, the American Dream is more apt to be realized in South America, in places such as Ecuador, Venezuela and Argentina," all practitioners of 21st century socialism. It is impossible to square that comment with the realities in those three countries today.

Let Ocasio-Cortez, Gillum, and Sanders come to Venezuela.

What's particularly galling about Sen. Sanders waxing poetic about the virtues of socialism is that he looks the other way as socialist leaders live in opulence while the masses starve.

We all sat in stunned disgust as Venezuela's Nicolas Maduro was recently caught feasting at the lavish Nusret Steakhouse in Turkey, chuckling as celebrity chef "Salt Bae" sprinkled salt on his perfectly prepared steak. Meanwhile, back in Venezuela, millions of his countrymen have lost an average of 19 pounds due to food shortages.

Venezuela's Lesson
Let Salt Bae come to Venezuela.

My family and I are among the fortunate. We left Venezuela well before the worst of it took hold and were able to stay away. But others in my extended family have not been so fortunate. For them, life is a daily struggle. It helps explain why anywhere from 1.6 million to 2 million Venezuelans are expected to leave this year alone.

Socialism has destroyed the country of my birth, and it would be wrong to believe it couldn't happen here. So, when you hear politicians preaching the wonders of socialism in any of its forms, think of my family.

So again I say, let them come to Venezuela. They will not like what they see.

https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/socialism-venezuela-chavez-poverty/
"There are some who say that c*******m is the... (show quote)



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Feb 9, 2020 22:19:49   #
sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri
 
JohnFrim wrote:
I am sure I will be labelled a socialist for this comment, but I will make it anyway.

I believe there are certain "rights" or "amenities" that everyone should be entitled to; or at least there should be some stability in the cost of these things. So a big issue for me is price control of the necessities of life. While I do not advocate running all of these essentials by the government, I do wish that there were regulations to control the prices being charged. Maybe that is seen as government control, but I think in many cases it is justified.

Electricity, water, gas, gasoline, and now even internet service, are pretty much essential, and it drives me crazy that, while most of these are fairly stable price wise over longer periods of time, gasoline prices go up and down not only throughout the week but even throughout the day. It used to be that the oil companies argued that they could not drop the pump price when the barrel of oil went down because the gasoline at the pump came from the purchase of oil when the price was high 3 months prior. But they sure didn't hold the pump price down for 3 months when the price of a barrel of oil went up!

Internet and phone service is next on my list. Why does the business model of these services not reward customers for loyalty? Every few months someone knocks on my door with an introductory offer of better cable, internet or phone service if I switch providers. Of course, the introductory offer will expire after a period of time and the price will go up. I would like to see a business model where the price comes down progressively for me for every year that I stick with the company! With the current approach I get the best value for my money by flipping between providers, or calling up my provider and threatening to switch if they don't do something about my bill. Why do I, the loyal customer, have to beg to be treated nicely?

Food, another life necessity, is a good example of where the industry pretty much regulates itself without government intervention. The cost of most food items is fairly stable over longer periods of time, with periodic sales to promote some products or to move those close to expiry. But for the most part people know the cost of a loaf of bread at a particular store over weeks if not months.

I am not against industries making a profit, and I am not against profits going up for legitimate reasons. Take flat screen TVs as an example. When they first came out they were VERY expensive. With mass production and increases in volume of sales, prices have come down a lot. But I will bet you the profits of the companies have gone up, not because of increased prices, but because of increased number of sales and smaller profit margins per item. Even if prices remained the same for an item, if people feel the price is fair they will buy the product. If the company can then find a way of reducing manufacturing cost they can increase their profit without burden on the customer. The company's employees can now get a raise and they improve their standard of living.

So is it capitalism that drives the free market and allows prices to swing so much?
Or is it socialism where there is rather longterm stability in wages and prices?
Is there a happy medium?
I am sure I will be labelled a socialist for this ... (show quote)


There are only three rights that a U.S. Citizen is guaranteed which are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. No more and no less.

No one is guaranteed or entitled to employment....No one. Even Federal and State employees have a process and criteria that they must successfully meet for employment...except for a politician (other than age and a U.S. Citizen).

No one is entitled to the fruits of others. The WORLD functions on trade. Even c*******t China relies on other nations productivity to survive. Socialism does not work for it is half-in and half-out. It takes from those who produce and gives to those who don't. Of course there are some that are physically or mentally unable to produce and they need help on a local community basis which can serve them best and more efficiently.

The vast majority of businesses are small and they are privately owned. They also employ a large part of the total workforce. Corporations are owned by shareholders and the purpose of a Corporation is to return equity to its shareholders. Large Corporations have thousands of shareholders including Unions that invest their members dues into those markets. There is an untold number of people who have money in a 401K or other tax-deferred program for their retirement, children's educations, future health needs or beer.

Then there are the Stock Market Players. They are basically gamblers and many are HUGE money rollers. Unfortunately they produce nothing other than wealth for themselves. At least a large Corporation manufactures some goods and may employ thousands world-wide.

It's the freakin Tax Code that needs to be changed. I can't imagine why...oh, I know why, it takes over 6,000 pages to explain how its citizens will be taxed...or not taxed.

Want lower drug prices? Change the lobbying laws and get the politicians out of their pockets. We have no one to blame but our embedded politicians....no one whatsoever but them. Provide incentives for the development of crucial drugs and reduce the stifling regulations that other countries, like Canada, don't have. Remember...We the People...do not have the right to force others to provide for us...but in a free market, where there is a demand there will be a supply. Even the drug dealer on the corner understands how the free market works..!

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Feb 10, 2020 09:42:34   #
Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM
 
sippyjug104 wrote:
There are only three rights that a U.S. Citizen is guaranteed which are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. No more and no less.

No one is guaranteed or entitled to employment....No one. Even Federal and State employees have a process and criteria that they must successfully meet for employment...except for a politician (other than age and a U.S. Citizen).

No one is entitled to the fruits of others. The WORLD functions on trade. Even c*******t China relies on other nations productivity to survive. Socialism does not work for it is half-in and half-out. It takes from those who produce and gives to those who don't. Of course there are some that are physically or mentally unable to produce and they need help on a local community basis which can serve them best and more efficiently.

The vast majority of businesses are small and they are privately owned. They also employ a large part of the total workforce. Corporations are owned by shareholders and the purpose of a Corporation is to return equity to its shareholders. Large Corporations have thousands of shareholders including Unions that invest their members dues into those markets. There is an untold number of people who have money in a 401K or other tax-deferred program for their retirement, children's educations, future health needs or beer.

Then there are the Stock Market Players. They are basically gamblers and many are HUGE money rollers. Unfortunately they produce nothing other than wealth for themselves. At least a large Corporation manufactures some goods and may employ thousands world-wide.

It's the freakin Tax Code that needs to be changed. I can't imagine why...oh, I know why, it takes over 6,000 pages to explain how its citizens will be taxed...or not taxed.

Want lower drug prices? Change the lobbying laws and get the politicians out of their pockets. We have no one to blame but our embedded politicians....no one whatsoever but them. Provide incentives for the development of crucial drugs and reduce the stifling regulations that other countries, like Canada, don't have. Remember...We the People...do not have the right to force others to provide for us...but in a free market, where there is a demand there will be a supply. Even the drug dealer on the corner understands how the free market works..!
There are only three rights that a U.S. Citizen is... (show quote)



The pricing of drugs has another peculiarity...... Pharma sets its pricing based on estimated total sales, they cut significant breaks for the rest of the world, and “plug” the rest against U.S. sales since the largest customer in the world, the U.S., doesn’t negotiate price!

In other words, WE THE PEOPLE of the U.S. subsidize the rest of the world!

Two simple steps fix it......first, allow the Medi-systems to negotiate prices, and second, force the Medi-systems to include favored nation pricing in their negotiations.

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Feb 10, 2020 12:55:10   #
sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri
 
Cykdelic wrote:
The pricing of drugs has another peculiarity...... Pharma sets its pricing based on estimated total sales, they cut significant breaks for the rest of the world, and “plug” the rest against U.S. sales since the largest customer in the world, the U.S., doesn’t negotiate price!

In other words, WE THE PEOPLE of the U.S. subsidize the rest of the world!

Two simple steps fix it......first, allow the Medi-systems to negotiate prices, and second, force the Medi-systems to include favored nation pricing in their negotiations.
The pricing of drugs has another peculiarity......... (show quote)


I'm in total agreement. Perhaps pharma should be regulated similar to our state's liquor distributor regulations which is wh**ever brand of liquor (non wine or beer) that a wholesale distributor sells it has to be at the same price regardless of the volume sold. That's why the price of your favorite bottle is quite similar regardless of what store you buy it from.

What I find REALLY R****DED is that an hour doesn't go by while watching TV that there is not a commercial for some medication telling me, "Ask your doctor if XXX is right for you". There is something really, really wrong when a drug has to be advertised.

I fully understand that Phama are corporations with thousands of shareholders that expect a return on their investments. I have many years of experience working in pharmaceutical by designing highly controlled environments for their manufacturing processes so I know a bit about the business.

I also know that there are many "drugs" inside the drugs and many, very many, are bought from places like China in bulk and then blended here. The prices of the bulk drugs are mind-blowingly cheap. An example of one is that 2-Kilo of the drug sells in China for $2,800 U.S. Just 10-grams of that drug is worth $3-million in the U.S. when sold by the pharmaceutical.

Unfortunately for the afflicted, it is a compound that is used in a drug for maintenance for a rare blood disease that costs a patient approximately $28,000 a month.

And we wonder why the price of health insurance is so high...HA..!

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Feb 10, 2020 14:54:14   #
Elaine2025 Loc: Seattle, Wa
 
thom w wrote:
"I know more than all the Generals"


Little tommie, really?????? You just make people shake their heads in amazement at you and your lack of knowledge.

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