RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri

Walt Whitman has a poem about the Learn'd Astronomer where he tells of listening to a detailed filled lecture but then leaving the hall and going out into the evening and soaking in the beauty of the night sky. After reading the back and forth and back again snarkiness of this exchange, I find myself wanting to cleanse my brain by taking my camera and going out and making some images, compositionally inadequate as they be.

Badgertale Loc: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA

LOL...!

MechEng Loc: The Mitten

I have been reading through these replies and I get a kick out of the responses which seem to fall into two main camps: "I don't care what other's think" and "They aren't smart enough to get in out of the rain".

I don't pretend to be a "good" photographer and, indeed, I come to this forum with humility and a large sense of "I am not good enough to post my photos"......but I occasionally do anyway because:

I won't get better if I don't know what better really means.

I have no asperations to go pro but I do want to produce better photos.

I enjoy my photos and I will still enjoy my photos no matter what someone here says (it's not like I am going to trash a photo because someone here says it sucks if I derive joy from it) but I will use it to benchmark and learn from.

So, by all means, I am looking for real constructive feedback. I know I am a hack, you don't have to tell me that. But what technical aspect of any photo I might post do you feel is lacking and WHY without boosting your own ego at the expense of mine??? Remember....what do you feel is lacking and WHY....without going into proclaiming how great you might be.

I joined two local photography clubs in less than 2 years looking for real, constructive feedback. I have yet to find that with either....mostly just a lot of shallow compliments and "everyone's a winner". I don't have time for that not do I need that sort of insincere validation.

I follow some photography groups on social media and they are much the same.....indeed, there is a big spat on one right now on what constitutes a true macro photo versus a close up......it has consumed damn near the entire group to the point it is ridiculous and no one benefits.

I am a manager of other managers and of individual contributors and, over the years, I have learned that it really does boil down to some simple concepts that actually improve everyone's performance, my own included:

Always be humble
Always be open minded and willing to listen
Tell folks what they do well as often as possible, no matter how "small".
Tell folks clearly how they fall short in exact language with relevant examples of what constitutes "short", why it is "short", and how they can achieve "par" or "excellent".
Sincerely show interest in their progress and continue to provide simple, honest feedback as outlined above.
No matter what, be real, be honest, be yourself, but be polite.

Am I a bad photographer? By some measures, absolutely.

Do I think I am a good photographer? By some measures important to me, yes. By some limited feedback from others that are not family or friends I do some things right.

Are both answers valid?

Is this a too deep topic to consider on New Year's Eve? ABSOLUTELY!!!

HAPPY 2020 all you hoggers!!!

MechEng Loc: The Mitten

Well stated. I really am trying to stay out of the "we are all winners" mindset and I do want to improve most aspects of my photography.

With that said, it is still a hobby to me that I derive great joy from......the joy of capturing a memory, a feeling, an idea, a...…..

I just want to get better at the technical aspects so that I more accurately portray those memories, feelings, ideas, etc.

It boils down to this simple fact....what I see and feel is often so much more than what I capture in a photo.....how do I make those two things more on par.

Badgertale Loc: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA

YOU ARE THE PHOTOGRAPHER!

aellman Loc: Boston MA

Because it's all in the eye of the beholder. Other than obvious foibles like soft focus, too dark or too light, etc., what you think is bad, others might think is good.

blackest Loc: Ireland

A Stylistic choice you mean.... it's meant to look like that...

aellman Loc: Boston MA

Exactly.

Pistnbroke Loc: UK

The only way you will find out if you are good is if you submit work to join one of the professional institutions .
BIPP MPA or RPS . The last one your work if reviewed by "experts " in front of an audience of about 800 most with binoculars !

User ID

When I finally stopped laffing it occurred
to me that such "advice" is NOT TOTALLY
laffable, cuz there is that pachyderm on
the dining room table ... the question of
"Good" at WHAT. And THAT is important
to consider. Clearly no one-word answer
such as "Photography" would be a useful
answer concerning "what".

It's no simple question, so I give myself
a slap on the wrist for laffing too hard. A
mere chuckle would've sufficed :-/

Pistnbroke Loc: UK

Membership is usually in different categories so you would be deemed good or proficient in that aspect of photography. If you passed you would not be bad.

User ID

I like the sound of that !

It answers the "become good at WHAT ?".
Choose a specific genre or skill and polish
it til it works reliably.

Issues of "creative vision" or "artistry" fall
aside and the goal is neatly defined.

aellman Loc: Boston MA

I'm hoping "laffing" was a joke.

frjack Loc: Boston, MA

Probably the same reason Florence Foster Jenkins thought she could sing.

Seabastes

I am not sure what the original poster is try to get at ?

On a professional level I have known photographers that were not very good, but very skilled business
persons and ran successful business.

I have also seen the opponsent.