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How to reconcile Sunny 16 rule with reciprocal rule for shutter speed for long lens?
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Dec 3, 2019 08:38:59   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
HA HA, excuse me while I go search for my escaped brain cells 🙉


Too much clutter like the Sunny 16 rule ...

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Dec 3, 2019 08:43:08   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Too much clutter like the Sunny 16 rule ...
True dat.

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Dec 3, 2019 09:02:45   #
Bill 45
 
I have been using the Sunny 16 Rule for years. Film cameras: Pentax, Canon, Nikon, Zeiss, Leica, and on and on with no problems. Film: 100-200-400-800 speed. Lenses: 28mm up to 500mm. All with no problems. Remember it the light at the thing you want to take the picture. Not your light. If you don't want to stop and think about what you are shooting. You have a problem, good luck.

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Dec 3, 2019 09:08:22   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
I just push that thingy that makes the sound and PhotoShop the results.

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Dec 3, 2019 09:13:45   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
Reciprocity means that another shutter speed and lens aperture combination will offer the same exposure. To give you an example using the ISO 100 that you selected lets start with f16-1/100 or 125sec. That is basic sunny 16.
You are using the 300mm lens and unless the lens has image stabilization you know that 1/100sec. will not be good enough to get a sharp image when handholding the camera for a steady subject. You have to use a higher shutter speed beyond 1/300sec.

It is not difficult to figure that out. As you move your apertures up or down the shutter speed is moved in the opposite direction the same amount you moved your lens openings. Lets say that from the prior example using ISO 100 you want to go to f5.6. Between f16 and f5.6 there are exactly 3 stops of light. Because you are allowing more light to the film or digital sensor now it is necessary to increase the shutter speeds also 3 steps, from 1/100 to 1/800sec. The lens is opened 3 stops and the shutter speeds are increased to 3 stops to compensate for reciprocity.
Now you have a combination of shutter speed-lens aperture which is exactly f5.6-1/800sec. enough to shoot with the 300mm lens handheld. Photographers prefer a higher shutter speed to stop action. Here is a list of similar exposures using ISO 100 as per reciprocity law:

f16-1/100sec.
f11-1/200sec.
f8-1/400sec.
f5.6-1/800sec.
f4- 1/1600sec.
f2.8-1/3200sec.

I hope you noticed that as the aperture of the lens opens admitting more light a faster shutter speed is necessary to compensate. I hope you noticed also that every time the aperture is moved from one setting to the next one the shutter speed doubles or is halved if in the opposite direction. This is all basic photography and there is plenty of information in the Web.

I hope this helps...if you understand the theory behind reciprocity.

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Dec 3, 2019 09:18:41   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
YNY wrote:
Silly question but one that has been bugging me. I understand the Sunny 16 guideline (Example: For bright sun and ISO 100 use f16 at 1/100 second). How does this apply to using a long lens (300mm for example) where the recommended minimum shutter speed would be 1/300 second or faster? Does one compensate with a larger aperture? Use a faster ISO? No need to compensate? What am I not seeing? I have searched for an answer without luck. Thank you.

The 1/[focal length] rule applies to hand-held photography. It does not apply if you are on a tripod or some other support like a beanbag.

Some people need to use a faster shutter speed because they can't hold a camera in their hands steadily enough.

But if your camera or lens has built-in stabilization you can actually hand-hold at a lower shutter speed.

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Dec 3, 2019 09:24:39   #
BebuLamar
 
YNY wrote:
Silly question but one that has been bugging me. I understand the Sunny 16 guideline (Example: For bright sun and ISO 100 use f16 at 1/100 second). How does this apply to using a long lens (300mm for example) where the recommended minimum shutter speed would be 1/300 second or faster? Does one compensate with a larger aperture? Use a faster ISO? No need to compensate? What am I not seeing? I have searched for an answer without luck. Thank you.


You can use f/9, 1/320 shutter speed.

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Dec 3, 2019 09:30:39   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
abc1234 wrote:
... The "rule" should be renamed the stupid 16 and kicked into the trash bin of photographic history.

The reality is that Sunny 16 still works.

Since the beginning of photography the brightness of the sun has not changed. It probably won't change over the next 10,000 years or more. You can probably add some zeros to that number if you know more about astronomy.

Your camera's ISO is based on how it responds to a standard level of illumination. You can't get more standard than sunlight and broad daylight.

Sunny 16 can be used as a reality check to see if your camera is working correctly.

It is here to stay.

Sunny 16, LV=14.67
Sunny 16, LV=14.67...

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Dec 3, 2019 09:32:27   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
YNY wrote:
Silly question but one that has been bugging me. I understand the Sunny 16 guideline (Example: For bright sun and ISO 100 use f16 at 1/100 second). How does this apply to using a long lens (300mm for example) where the recommended minimum shutter speed would be 1/300 second or faster? Does one compensate with a larger aperture? Use a faster ISO? No need to compensate? What am I not seeing? I have searched for an answer without luck. Thank you.


It all depends on the result you want, if you want the background to go out of focus you will have to shoot at a minimum lens opening, that would be 6.3, 5.6, what ever the minimum opening is for you 300 mm lens.
The minimum shutter speed should be at least 1/300 sec. but faster is better.
When I was a photo journalist I shot the Sunshine Rule with old manual focus lenses.
With today's auto focus lenses that is a thing in the past.
You will have to shoot at a faster ISO.
Why not use auto ISO and manual exposure?
You are thinking about too many variables, you need to narrow your focus on what works and leave the sunshine rule rest.

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Dec 3, 2019 09:33:35   #
Bill 45
 
Don't hand hold a camera with a lens over 200mm. Use 400 speed film for pictures using a lens over 300mm.

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Dec 3, 2019 09:40:45   #
bleirer
 
camerapapi wrote:
Reciprocity means that another shutter speed and lens aperture combination will offer the same exposure. To give you an example using the ISO 100 that you selected lets start with f16-1/100 or 125sec. That is basic sunny 16.
You are using the 300mm lens and unless the lens has image stabilization you know that 1/100sec. will not be good enough to get a sharp image when handholding the camera for a steady subject. You have to use a higher shutter speed beyond 1/300sec.

It is not difficult to figure that out. As you move your apertures up or down the shutter speed is moved in the opposite direction the same amount you moved your lens openings. Lets say that from the prior example using ISO 100 you want to go to f5.6. Between f16 and f5.6 there are exactly 3 stops of light. Because you are allowing more light to the film or digital sensor now it is necessary to increase the shutter speeds also 3 steps, from 1/100 to 1/800sec. The lens is opened 3 stops and the shutter speeds are increased to 3 stops to compensate for reciprocity.
Now you have a combination of shutter speed-lens aperture which is exactly f5.6-1/800sec. enough to shoot with the 300mm lens handheld. Photographers prefer a higher shutter speed to stop action. Here is a list of similar exposures using ISO 100 as per reciprocity law:

f16-1/100sec.
f11-1/200sec.
f8-1/400sec.
f5.6-1/800sec.
f4- 1/1600sec.
f2.8-1/3200sec.

I hope you noticed that as the aperture of the lens opens admitting more light a faster shutter speed is necessary to compensate. I hope you noticed also that every time the aperture is moved from one setting to the next one the shutter speed doubles or is halved if in the opposite direction. This is all basic photography and there is plenty of information in the Web.

I hope this helps...if you understand the theory behind reciprocity.
Reciprocity means that another shutter speed and l... (show quote)


Remember the glory days when we had to carry around tables for reciprocity failure for long exposures? Every roll of film came with directions wadded up in the box....the smell of Dektol in the morning....

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Dec 3, 2019 09:43:33   #
ggab Loc: ?
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Imagine your life as a successful photographer. What type of phone are you holding?


Sorry, I don't have that good an imagination

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Dec 3, 2019 09:46:15   #
abc1234 Loc: Elk Grove Village, Illinois
 
bleirer wrote:
Remember the glory days when we had to carry around tables for reciprocity failure for long exposures? Every roll of film came with directions wadded up in the box....the smell of Dektol in the morning....


Dektol did not really smell. The predominant odors were from acetic acid in the stop-bath or sulfurous acid from the fixer.

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Dec 3, 2019 09:50:50   #
abc1234 Loc: Elk Grove Village, Illinois
 
selmslie wrote:
...Since the beginning of photography the brightness of the sun has not changed. It probably won't change over the next 10,000 years or more. You can probably add some zeros to that number if you know more about astronomy...Sunny 16 can be used as a reality check to see if your camera is working correctly....


The brightness of the sun is depends where you are. Here in the Chicago area with considerable air pollution, the sun is not as bright as it is a mile up in the Rockies, far from any city or town.

Sunny 16 a reality check? I am surprised to hear that from you. The reality check is what you see on the back of the camera or on the computer later.

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Dec 3, 2019 10:01:27   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
abc1234 wrote:
Dektol did not really smell. The predominant odors were from acetic acid in the stop-bath or sulfurous acid from the fixer.

That's about all I can smell from the chemicals these days and I have to get close to the liquids to notice.

Many years ago there were smellier chemicals and my nose was more sensitive.

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