Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
Crop v Full Frame
Page <<first <prev 6 of 7 next>
Nov 24, 2019 21:23:57   #
fetzler Loc: North West PA
 
If you try to shoot macro with medium format film or a 4x5" film you will learn the advantages of smaller format cameras for macro. I once shot macro with an 11 x 14' camera. The object was rather big but the magnification was > 1:1.

Reply
Nov 24, 2019 21:53:55   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
delete - duplicate

Reply
Nov 24, 2019 21:57:55   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
amfoto1 wrote:
The 32.5MP APS-C crop 90D will have the advantage in most cases.

The 26MP full frame 6D Mark II would only be an advantage if you....

....need to use very high ISO for some reason. 6D Mark II's considerably less "crowded" sensor will be able to shoot at higher ISO before heat gain and cross talk cause noise problems in images. I haven't seen DXO tests of the 90D yet, it's too new.... but I have little doubt the 6DII will have higher usable ISO. But, shooting macro, you're not likely to need super high ISO very often. With any camera, shooting macro you would be better served either using longer exposure when the subject allows, with a tripod if necessary, and/or using flash to illuminate the subject.

....or if you will be making very big enlargements from the images. In that case, the 6DII's images that need less magnification have the potential to hold up better. However, you probably won't see much difference until you make prints larger than 13x19".

If you are going to go to the trouble of "full frame", I'd opt for a higher resolution camera than the 6DII. Canon 5D Mark IV with 30MP or 5DS-R with 50MP would make more sense. (The 5DS-R has very limited high ISO, by the way.)

But if you're going to spend this kind of money for a special use camera, why stop with "full frame"? You might want to consider going even bigger with a medium format digital camera. It used to be that this next step up in sensor size was cost-prohibitive, but prices have come way, way down in recent years. Fuji, Mamiya, Pentax and even Hasselblad are all now offering moderately priced MF digital. Sure, these are a bit more expensive than a Canon or Nikon full frame camera... but not all that much more.

A 50MP Canon 5DS-R body costs $3699 and a Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L IS USM lens is currently on sale for $699 (normally $900), plus $172 for the separately sold Tripod Ring D.... $4570

A 50MP Fuji GFX body currently costs $4000 and the Fuji GF 120mm f/4 Macro OIS WR lens is on sale for $2200 (normally $2700).... $6200.

Used to be that MF cameras cost as much as a new car (and some still do). But prices have come down considerably, at the same time performance has improved.
The 32.5MP APS-C crop 90D will have the advantage ... (show quote)


At it again. You are very free with other people’s money.

Reply
 
 
Nov 24, 2019 21:59:16   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
With the wrong camera, success is probably 99% luck. But with the right camera, it's 100% the photographer.

Reply
Nov 24, 2019 22:33:25   #
smussler Loc: Land O Lakes, FL - Formerly Miller Place, NY
 
jcboy3 wrote:
Here is the macro dilemma. I can take the exact same picture with a crop sensor and full frame sensor, the the crop sensor image can be a macro image while the full frame image is not.


I'm not following. Macro is 1:1. If I take a photo of a fly sitting on a white piece of paper. At 1:1 magnification how is one a macro and the other not? The fly is the same size on either camera's sensor. The FF will have more of the paper captured on it's larger sensor. Upon printing the full images to the same paper sizes, those photo's will be visibly different, but why would one be considered a macro image and the other not?

And if i'm taking a macro 1:1 of a larger flower (or perhaps a nickel), the FF camera may very well fit that entire flower (or nickel) at 1:1 on it's sensor, while the cropped sensor could not. Again if both are at a 1:1 magnification, why would one image not be considered a macro?

Perhaps your definition of macro is not 1:1? Subject size matching image size on the camera's sensor.?

So what's better for 1:1 Macro photography - FF or cropped sensor, I'd think it would depend on the size of the subject being photographed.

Perhaps, I'm misunderstanding what you mean by the exact same picture? - same 1:1 magnification or same content captured?

Reply
Nov 25, 2019 07:46:45   #
Retina Loc: Near Charleston,SC
 
DeanS wrote:
Is there much diff between cropping in-camera (crop body) and cropping on your computer (ff body)?

Practically speaking, cropping with a computer offers more precise control, but I would bet most crop sensor images still get a final crop for composition in post anyway. To the main topic, unless the OP refers to crop as smaller sensors with interchangeable lenses only, consider the fixed lens compacts with good lenses, such as Canon GF or Nikon P7000 series, as an alternative to FF for close-ups. Their smaller size can help getting closer to the subject in tight quarters and still have adequate IQ. Getting in close also can mean less cropping with the computer.

Reply
Nov 25, 2019 09:10:48   #
DeanS Loc: Capital City area of North Carolina
 
Retina wrote:
Practically speaking, cropping with a computer offers more precise control, but I would bet most crop sensor images still get a final crop for composition in post anyway. To the main topic, unless the OP refers to crop as smaller sensors with interchangeable lenses only, consider the fixed lens compacts with good lenses, such as Canon GF or Nikon P7000 series, as an alternative to FF for close-ups. Their smaller size can help getting closer to the subject in tight quarters and still have adequate IQ. Getting in close also can mean less cropping with the computer.
Practically speaking, cropping with a computer off... (show quote)


Concur with your comment Retina. My response was directed solely to the result.

Reply
 
 
Nov 25, 2019 09:44:45   #
fetzler Loc: North West PA
 
smussler wrote:
I'm not following. Macro is 1:1. If I take a photo of a fly sitting on a white piece of paper. At 1:1 magnification how is one a macro and the other not? The fly is the same size on either camera's sensor. The FF will have more of the paper captured on it's larger sensor. Upon printing the full images to the same paper sizes, those photo's will be visibly different, but why would one be considered a macro image and the other not?

And if i'm taking a macro 1:1 of a larger flower (or perhaps a nickel), the FF camera may very well fit that entire flower (or nickel) at 1:1 on it's sensor, while the cropped sensor could not. Again if both are at a 1:1 magnification, why would one image not be considered a macro?

Perhaps your definition of macro is not 1:1? Subject size matching image size on the camera's sensor.?

So what's better for 1:1 Macro photography - FF or cropped sensor, I'd think it would depend on the size of the subject being photographed.

Perhaps, I'm misunderstanding what you mean by the exact same picture? - same 1:1 magnification or same content captured?
I'm not following. Macro is 1:1. If I take a pho... (show quote)


It is not 1:1 per se. Consider an 11 x14" camera. In landscape format and 1:1 magnification an object that
is 356m mm will fill the frame for 6 x6 cm camera 60mm will fill the frame, for full frame 36mm, and for micro 4/3 18mm. To fill the frame of an 18 mm object in 11 x14'' film will require 20X magnification and the depth of field will be razor thin even at f 90. At 1:1 the bellows draw is over 2ft. and it is much much more at 20x. (probably no camera ever existed to do this as it would be an exercise in masochism)

I assure you it is easier to take a photo at 1/2 x with micro 4/3 that at 1:1 with full frame. The more you increase the magnification the worse the situation gets.

Reply
Nov 25, 2019 10:55:07   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
Retina wrote:
Practically speaking, cropping with a computer offers more precise control, but I would bet most crop sensor images still get a final crop for composition in post anyway. To the main topic, unless the OP refers to crop as smaller sensors with interchangeable lenses only, consider the fixed lens compacts with good lenses, such as Canon GF or Nikon P7000 series, as an alternative to FF for close-ups. Their smaller size can help getting closer to the subject in tight quarters and still have adequate IQ. Getting in close also can mean less cropping with the computer.
Practically speaking, cropping with a computer off... (show quote)


This was in reference to macro photography. Most bridge cameras don’t do true macro.

Reply
Nov 25, 2019 14:11:56   #
aellman Loc: Boston MA
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
The best part is that most macro shooters see the absurdity while others see some sort of meaning ....


Well said, and made me laugh again. Thanks!

Reply
Nov 25, 2019 14:55:21   #
Steve758
 
Grahame wrote:
I would suggest this is a totally misleading and incorrect statement, a good example of your first paragraph.

Macro photography is not just about DOF as with most other genres of photography. A critter/bug in a well framed dramatic pose where only the eyes/mouth are in sharp focus can give the viewer far more impact than a poorly framed, uninteresting pose that's all in focus. This can also be true for such subjects as flowers as well.


Grahame;
MY POINT EXACTLY.........DOF!!!!!!!! of course the obvious add-on's are COMPOSITION & LIGHTING.
And let us not forget perhaps the most important one of all, THE PHOTOGRAPHER. After all, the beauty of photography as with all art forms is the inspiration and sight of the one who created it.

I hadn't realized that you'd been appointed the defacto standard of acceptable and not acceptable macro photography. Ever thought that there may be some who find your work, lacking, boring and perhaps even un-inspired.

Reply
 
 
Nov 25, 2019 15:12:31   #
Grahame Loc: Fiji
 
Steve758 wrote:
Grahame;
MY POINT EXACTLY.........DOF!!!!!!!! of course the obvious add-on's are COMPOSITION & LIGHTING.
And let us not forget perhaps the most important one of all, THE PHOTOGRAPHER. After all, the beauty of photography as with all art forms is the inspiration and sight of the one who created it.

I hadn't realized that you'd been appointed the defacto standard of acceptable and not acceptable macro photography. Ever thought that there may be some who find your work, lacking, boring and perhaps even un-inspired.
Grahame; br MY POINT EXACTLY.........DOF!!!!!!!! o... (show quote)


Good that you realised the error of your post, but unfortunate that it hurt your ego so much that you had to resort to personal insults.

Reply
Nov 25, 2019 15:20:35   #
aellman Loc: Boston MA
 
jerryc41 wrote:
You haven't seen my cousin!


HILARIOUS!

Reply
Nov 25, 2019 15:44:38   #
Steve758
 
Grahame wrote:
Good that you realised the error of your post, but unfortunate that it hurt your ego so much that you had to resort to personal insults.


Grahame;

I said, Macro is all about DOF. You confirmed that in your comment. It doesn't matter whether its a deep or narrow DOF. So, where is the ERROR of my statement?
You also confirmed what you feel is boring, all in focus macro work, is nothing more than your opinion. I was just stating the obvious, your not the standard. Frankly, with what credentials do you voice your opinion? Are you a published professional with hundreds of award winning macro shots, do you have international acclaim, or are you just someone who thinks they know?

Reply
Nov 25, 2019 17:34:46   #
aellman Loc: Boston MA
 
Steve758 wrote:
Grahame;
MY POINT EXACTLY.........DOF!!!!!!!! of course the obvious add-on's are COMPOSITION & LIGHTING.
And let us not forget perhaps the most important one of all, THE PHOTOGRAPHER. After all, the beauty of photography as with all art forms is the inspiration and sight of the one who created it.

I hadn't realized that you'd been appointed the defacto standard of acceptable and not acceptable macro photography. Ever thought that there may be some who find your work, lacking, boring and perhaps even un-inspired.
Grahame; br MY POINT EXACTLY.........DOF!!!!!!!! o... (show quote)


Obviously you haven't yet learned that everyone here is the world's greatest expert on [insert photo topic of your choice]. >Alan

Reply
Page <<first <prev 6 of 7 next>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.