Kenny Loc: Oregon

The color on my monitor seems to be an exact match to what I think I see in the camera. When I print, the colors are a shade darker than what I see on the screen/camera. Am I expecting too much?

What changes do I need to make to match everything up? Can the paper I'm using make a difference?

I sure would appreciate some help from the UHH experts.

Festina Lente Loc: Florida & Missouri

What appears to be "an exact match" really isn't.

You need to calibrate your monitor. Easy to do (if you have a monitor that can be calibrated). One excellent product is Spyder 4. It comes in 3 "flavors" depending on your needs. Check it out and get that monitor calibrated.

Once your monitor is calibrated (and you have darkened the room you view the monitor in), if you still have a similiar problem, we can discuss paper profiles (which can have a dramatic difference on some printers, which is why using the manufacturer's recommended paper is a good starting point before venturing elsewhere).

Then there is printer and ink color profile calibration. Something that is rarely needed for most of us, and not very common. The better printers can be tweaked to perfection, but this is more complicated, and not something most photographers find necessary.

Sources for Spyder 4 Express (the least expensive version):

http://www.amazon.com/Datacolor-Spyder4Express-S4X100-Display-Calibration/dp/B006TF3746/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1346721895&sr=8-3&keywords=spyder+4

http://www.adorama.com/ICVS4X100.html?gclid=CN20jZvimrICFSdgMgodURkAgQ

Good luck and let us know how you did.

CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver

In addition to Festina Lente's post,make sure your monitor is not set too bright. If it is, of course your prints will be darker because what you saw on the screen was brighter than actual. Even if you calibrate your monitor, it is possible to end up setting the brightness greater than the calibration setting.

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

Hay, ifin the stick don't fit the hole whittle the stick til it does. You said your camera and monitor and eye agree on what you (thought) you saw when taking the photo. Personally, I like my screen bright so my ol eyes can see the dazzel like the old slide film projected on the glass bead screen... sigh... :XD: Really, what you want is a quick and simple fix why complicate things.

I have solved my prints too dark problem by going into an old faithful program, MGI Photosuit 4, (w98 program works in w-7) for printing. It is so crude it lets me violate the aspect ratio, changes sizes etc... any way, what I do is open the photo, jack it up +20 on the brightness adjust and save by the same name and add +20. I print from that program because of the personal control over the size and aspect ratio. By adjusting the brightness I have solved the "too dark" problem with simplicity.

Some times success is measured by getting the job done and one does not need grsophisticationtion.

Be sure to get the summer 2012 issue of c't Digital Photography. It goes in depth regarding color, 24 pages of technicalities!! And discusses other than Adobe color spaces. Worth the long tough read more than once.

www.ct-digiphoto.com :thumbup:

mrjcall Loc: Woodfin, NC

I recommend Colormunki if you a serious about getting start to finish color calibration. Check it out here http://www.colormunki.com/
It's the best out there.

OnDSnap Loc: NE New Jersey

There is another discussion going on from yesterday about Colormunki and Spyder...http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-61451-1.html

Kenny Loc: Oregon

My sincerest thanks to you all for your very helpful suggestions. I use a MAC, I have discovered that it actually has a function built-in that helps calibrate the monitor in a darkened room. It takes the viewer through a series of 5 steps where sliders are adjusted to match what you see to a series of grey and color-tinted patterns, ending with adjusting the gamma. It was this last step that made a hugh difference. Now, at least the screen matches what I see in the camera (to my old eyes).

Now I get to decide which printer profile to use - selecting from hundreds, and whether to allow PS to select the color profile, or the printer. Then comes paper selection I guess.

I did not know things could get so technical and difficult to understand until my photo settings started to get better, and I started to care more about the end results.

It reminds me: I used to play golf a lot with a friend. Starting out, and not knowing much and barely keeping score, it was very relaxing and a lot of fun. We even played in the rain and snow, laughing most of the time. Wanting to get better, we started taking lessons, practicing, and getting competitive and fussed over the score, even making small wagers. That's when things began to go sour, after we began to take things seriously. We decided our friendship should come first and we decided to do something else.

I am hoping things don't go that way again with this photography things. It seems to be headed that way as I get more critical and demanding of my work.

Again, thanks for all the help. I don't know what I would do without all your experience and unselfish generosities - start paying for lessons, I guess.

Picdude Loc: Ohio

Kenny,

Loved the golf story :). The fact that you are noticing the differencs you mentioned shows you are starting to get a passion for your hobby and care about getting things right.

Just remember to have fun, enjoy the learning proess and don't let technical issues get you down. Future UHHers will be depending on you for the insights you are experiencing now. ;)

AlanK Loc: No. Califorina

Kenny, you've got this statement turned around;

"Now I get to decide which printer profile to use - selecting from hundreds, and whether to allow PS to select the color profile, or the printer. Then comes paper selection I guess."

The paper selection should come FIRST, then get the "correct profile" from the paper company that's made for your printer! You didn't mention what you print with but with my old Epson 4800 (17" wide) I ALWAYS start with the paper, then the profile! You can even go to someone like ITSupplies.com and download profiles for the papers they sell, free of charge, if you use their paper's that is ;~).

To really get control of your workflow you can send samples of special color targets you've printed and have a "Custom Profile" made just for your paper and printer. I've paid $25 for most profiles I use.

Don't get confused by all the "profile" OPTION'S you see for paper profiles, each one is for one exact type of paper and if you're not using that paper DON'T use the matching profile, you won't like the results!

And 99% of the time ALWAYS let Photoshop manage color, NOT the printer!

I've settled on 2 or 3 paper types and have had Custom Profile's made for my equipment, I ignore the rest, once you get the hang of it it's pretty simple.

Good luck. Alan

Kenny Loc: Oregon

Alan, do paper companies really make custom profiles? The printer I am using in a Canon MX 882, thinking a Canon printer and Canon camera would somehow match up. Just goes to show how much I know. I will be taking your advice.

Now you need to tell me how to prepare "special color targets".

Thanks Alan

Kenny

cjeisch

Before you print, make your print on the monitor screen a little lighter than you would like it and then print it. This may take a little trial and error until you get it right but it works.

Kenny Loc: Oregon

My wife wants to know the name of your plant, if you know. She is a Master Gardner in the NW ans not seen it here. very beautiful plant, even better photo, cjeisch. How do you do those black backgrounds?

AlanK Loc: No. Califorina

Kenny, this will work but it can get costly if you use high quality large paper! I use either Ilford Luster or Museo(sp?) Silver Rag, in 17" x 22" size, and each sheet can cost as much as $5.00, and that doesn't include ink and time! A pricey experiment to get the print right and you can't use a smaller sheet of cheaper paper, the darn profile/paper won't come close to a match.

If you're serious about your print quality, and it sounds like you are because you're taking on the "printing" end of this whole process, buy a Color Munki and calibrate your monitor, camera, scanner and printer. You'll be printing what you see on screen (if it can be calibrated?) in no time, and the first time ;~). BTW, which printer are you using?

Alan

CaptainC Loc: Colorado, south of Denver

Well, the camera has nothing to do with it. You could shoot with Nikon, Sony, Pentax, etc. The printer just knows it is getting a jpg or a tiff.

Take the time and expense to buy a decent hardware calibration system - the software calibration thing in the Mac is better than nothing, but only marginally. The color Munki is great but any of the X-Rite products are going to do a good job.

For now, don't worry about building your own profiles, just install the profiles from the paper maker - most are VERY good.

AT first, just use the paper from the Printer Maker - you have a Canon printer - use Canon paper. You can move on to Red River, or Moab, Hahnemuhle, etc., down the road. Just worry about getting good prints in the simplest, most straightforward method for now. At your level, thinking about building custom profiles makes no sense. It's the old walk before you run thing.


We can never "match" our prints to the monitor. Prints reflect light, the monitor emits light. A perfect match is not physically possible, but we can make sure that reds are red and not pink or purple, that flesh tones do not have green cast, that white is white, etc. If you think you will be able to hold the print up to the monitor and not tell which is which....well...let me know how you did it! :-)

Getting to a good color-managed workflow is the dirty secret camera manufacturers do not want to discuss. Getting your prints right will take a little work, but once you get there, it will be well worth the effort.

AlanK Loc: No. Califorina

Oops, Kenny, your printer is NOT a quality Photographic printer! It only has 5 inks, a pro model Canon's use 12, Epson & HP can use 10, my old printer uses 8 different inks, each ink cart costs me over $50! So, $50 times 8 = $400, twice what you paid for your printer! My Epson was close to $3,000, weighs about 100 pounds, so there is no comparison.

As far as "target's" for custom profiles, I would think any service that makes the profiles will have files you can download, with proper instructions on how to print those "targets" as it's different from printing a regular picture.

I hate to pop your ballon Kenny, but with your printer I wouldn't bother with "custom profiles", it may not have the ability to print with them, and I bet you can't find a service to even bother.

Quality paper manufactures produce "canned profiles" that can work quite well, and their free ;~), so I'd try there first. So if you're printing on Canon paper there may be instructions in the paper box that tells you where to download the correct profile for a Photo printer, a MUCH different beast than you're "all-in-one" machine.

If you're serious about print quality you've two choice's IMHO; buy a quality Photo printer (around $3k) or use an online service like Mpix (there are other's but don't use Costco)!

Feel free to ask more questions Kenny, hope I'm helping and not putting you off, not my intention at all.

Alan